This was the point of the Dillon Powers example. He is a good MLS midfielder, but because he stayed four years in college, he is also a very, very underpaid one. In any case, the point is that a soccer player's second and third contracts are the real financial incentive to leave school, not the first contract. I don't see anyone making this sweeping statement. With respect to Morris, it's kind of crazy to bring this up as a possibility. If he washes out of soccer at a young age, he almost certainly goes to a good college and gets a good degree. It's entirely possible that he winds up in a more rewarding line of work than if he'd been trying to balance school with soccer.
Then I don’t know what this whole discussion is about. It's fine if people think Morris should drop the college thing and sign with Seattle for $50k, but I’m just saying it doesn’t make much sense.
The discussion is a lot more nuanced than you've made it out to be. Good thing you're not Michael Bradley. He skipped college to sign for $24K.
Think of the reference to Michael Bradley as an invitation for you to add a little nuance to your argument. If your position is that it doesn't make sense to skip college for $50K, then doesn't it only stand to reason that you think it was foolish for Bradley to skip college, and for Dempsey to drop out?
Absolutely not. I'm surprised that you can't figure out the nuance in the situations of Bradley/Dempsey and Morris. Now if he believes he's in the Roma/Spurs category of potential, then by all means, start your pro career and go for it. I have my position, but frankly this Morris/Stanford/Seattle situation isn't really one of significant interest to me. All I know is what I would advise him to do. As always, you are free to have your own opinion.
Some new quotes from Ramos on the Toulon tournament: http://www.ussoccer.com/news/u-20-m...-u20-mnt-look-ahead-to-toulon-tournament.aspx
If you're implying that Dempsey or Bradley was considered a future national team star when they opted out of college, that's revisionism (they were offered $24K contracts for a reason). But even if you want to pretend that they're not part of the discussion, I've pointed out repeatedly that a Dillon Powers type has a huge financial incentive to prove his worth as early in his career as possible. A low starting contract is how MLS should be. It's such a pity how many kids get their egos built up before they've actually done anything. Now that Agbossoumonde is making $50K, his head is on a lot straighter.
Not the implication at all. Dillon Powers had a huge financial incentive not to go pro. In fact, he got paid a hell of a lot more than he would have gotten had he opted for MLS. And he ended up with a fantastic degree in case the soccer thing doesn’t work out. And as you mentioned, if he's deserving, his second contract is where he will make his real money anyway. I’m willing to bet that Morris wouldn’t be demanding of a higher salary from Seattle due to ego, but rather due to prudence. You’re right though that for some players, ego is an issue.
Good Post. The goal in professional development process is to get many talented youth players into a professional training structure that improves their game for the chance to make millions. Very few 17 yr olds should be offered 100K plus taking into consideration the success rates. Some will warrant it. The rationale should be that we are offering you an apprentice spot into an advanced development system so you have a significant increased chance to become a professional player and make millions. The thought process for the player is that they are being a once in a lifetime opportunity to develop in a system that maximizes that chance not guarantees it. Now the debate how much that first 3-4 yr contract should be so that it incentivizes the youth to pursue that option but not bankrupt teams taking into account the obvious failure rates involved. One point is to find out what other foreign teams offer but here's thinking that if MLS signs 2-4 top 17-18 yr old prospects a year at 50-75K it would make a dent in getting more highly rated prospects playing against each other in the enhanced professional competitive environment.
If Bradley didn't make it as a professioanl soccer player, I would think with his family support and smarts Princeton or some othe elite school would have been waiting for him.
This is very rare. Very. I don't know what Morris was offered by Bret Simon so I can't definitely say he isn't getting a full ride. However, I can say that most of the players in MLS did not get full rides when they were in college, especially as freshmen. I know youth national team caliber players who eventually went P40/GA who were offered escalating scholarships like 1/4 as freshmen, 1/2 as sophomores, etc... And since the elite of the elite rarely make it to their senior year they never end up on a full ride. This doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. I've been told that when he was at Clemson and was recruiting the first Bradenton class, Trevor Adair said "I have three full rides for the first to commit to them" and Oguchi Onyewu, Kenny Cutler and Bryan Jackson committed almost immediately. (Jackson never matriculated after trying to make a go if in Europe and Adair was able to use that money on Doug Warren and Ricky Lewis - youth national team level players who weren't, obviously on full rides.) But one of the reasons that was so effective was because full rides for college players, especially freshmen, are so rare. Another thing is coaches often package "scholarships" in different forms. There's the grant-in-aid we commonly call an athletic scholarship and then there are various financial aid packages and other scholarship programs for players based on grades or ethnicity or whatever. So a player might get a 1/4 athletic scholarship but get a bunch of financial aid if his parents qualify. Morris' father is a doctor so I'm gonna guess they won't be getting much financial aid at Stanford. Again, he might be getting a full-ride from Stanford. But if he is, he'll be in a very distinct minority of college players.
Yes, each situation is unique and a lot of factors go into it. Some like to paint the whole college vs. pro dynamic with a a single broad brush as if everything is the same and ignore each's player's individual cirmcumstances, prospects, and values. The Morris situation is anything but obvious, namely because there are so many missing details.
Can't the same thing be said about Morris? Smart enough to get into Stanford means smart enough to go almost anywhere. Father who is a prominent doctor means a family with the $$$ to pay for college anywhere. And having pro soccer on the resume at job interviews after he gets that degree will look great and separate him from the field of applicants.
He had an exceedingly good support system and advantages that many of the very best youth players in the country couldn't boast at that time. He's a poor example to use for this ongoing argument.
Look if we cant use one player (Yedlin) to show that Seattle gives chances to youth, then we cant use one player (Zavaleta) to claim that they don't. And if my memory suits me right Zavaleta is not a great example since Seattle have tried him at FW and CB. I'm still not 100% sure what your argument is. I just don't think this is super relevant anymore with increased number of HGP's at teams. If your lil bro was about to sign with LA Galaxy would you tell him not to because of _insert failed HGP here_? No! You would say LAG is one of the teams that gives HGP's a chance. If your lil bro was about to sign with San Jose would you tell him to because of the success of Yedlin or McBean? No! You would say San Jose has never had a HGP, this could be risky. Saying "the league does this" or "MLS does this" when it comes to the playing time and treatment of HGP's is silly. Individual teams are in control of that area, not the home office. That being said I will drop this now since we have derailed this thread abit.
S A M P L E S I Z E. A sample size of one freaking HGP. ONE. Would you judge an investment based on one persons opinion or would you rather have multiple opinions? That's kind of an analogy that may make sense in this situation. Sure Yedlin has been good in Seattle, because someone got hurt. If the Sweedish guy didn't get hurt, Yedlin would have never seen the field. It was luck, not Seattle deciding to start a 19 year old RB on opening day.
Ramos says there's a good chance John Anthony Brooks will play Toulon. http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1...nthony-brooks-leans-us-tab-ramos-says?cc=5901
What I'd be more likely to say is that the Galaxy have a bunch of open foreign player slots including a DP slot. Depending on who they decide to bring in, a youngster could get buried very quickly. There are, in fact, things that MLS does that have a big bearing on playing time for youngsters. Back when senior rosters were limited to 18 players and foreigners were limited to 5 or so, a young player had a fighting chance to break in. Today, there are U20 national team starters who can't get any minutes at all, and that's not solely a club management issue. MLS' system makes it wonderfully convenient to fill lineup openings with foreigners and not give the inexperienced guys a chance. Anyway, I agree that we should stop derailing the thread. There may be actual news ahead.
News. Thank God, actual news! And good news, too. Woo-hoo, both for the news being good and giving us something else to beat into the ground ad nauseam!
Toulon starts three weeks from today. Hopefully US Soccer can be a little more fan-friendly and release the roster and have some good game recaps.
Yedlin thinks the speed of play with the U20's is faster than with the Sounders. Also addresses the possibility of him starting at right back in Turkey. http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/the91stminute/2013/05/u20-mnt-interview-deandre-yedlin/