Time for a wooden spoon?

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by Etienne_72772, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Of all MLS teams (incl. the defunct ones), the following have not tasted the ultimate glory of Wooden Spoon yet:

    Team First
    Season
    in MLS
    Number of
    "Spoon-free"
    Seasons
    (through 2012)
    Worst Finishes (Seasons)
    Kansas City 1996 17 11th/12 teams (1998, 1999)
    R.S.L. 2005 8 12th/13 teams (2007)
    Chivas 2005 8 18th/19 teams (2012)
    Houston 2006 7 12th/16 teams (2010)
    Seattle 2009 4 7th/19 teams (2012)
    Miami 1998 4
    (folded in 2001)
    9th/12 teams (1999, 2000)
    Philadelphia 2010 3 14th/16 teams (2010)
    Portland 2011 2 17th/19 teams (2012)
    Montreal 2012 1 12th/19 teams (2012)

    Well done K.C. for holding off the temptations of the Spoon for almost 2 decades, more than double of the closest challengers!!

    Among them, other than K.C., R.S.L. and Chivas, the rest have yet to finish in the bottom-2 as well.

    And Seattle have never missed the playoffs, even in their worst (regular) season. :thumbsup:
     
  2. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Similar to the table worked out for the predictions of Supporters' Shield 2013, below is the table comparing the fortunes of the team(s) with the most opening losses (MOL) & the most opening losses and ties (MOLT), i.e. the Longest Winless Start:

    Season Team(s)
    with MOL
    Record Final
    Overall
    Position(s)
    / Teams
    Teams(s)
    with MOLT
    (Longest
    Winless
    Start)
    Record Final
    Overall
    Position(s)
    / Teams
    1996 D.C.,
    N.Y.
    0-3-0 3rd,
    7th/10
    N.Y. 0-3-2 7th/10
    1997 Dallas 0-1-0 5th/10 L.A.,
    N.Y.(*)
    0-2-1 4th,
    9th/10
    1998 N.Y. 0-3-0 6th/12 Colorado,
    N.E.(*)
    0-1-3,
    0-2-2
    5th,
    12th/12
    1999 K.C.(*) 0-3-0 11th/12 S.J.(*) 0-5-6 7th/12
    2000 Chicago,
    D.C.(*)
    0-2-0 2nd,
    11th/12
    N.E. 0-2-2 7th/12
    2001 N.E. (*) 0-6-0 9th/12 N.E.(*) 0-6-0 9th/12
    2002 N.E. 0-2-0 5th/10 N.E. 0-2-0 5th/10
    2003 N.Y.,
    Colorado,
    D.C.
    0-1-0 5th,
    6th,
    7th/10
    L.A. 0-4-4 9th/10
    2004 Columbus 0-3-0 1st/10 Columbus 0-3-2 1st/10
    2005 Chicago,
    Colorado,
    L.A.,
    Chivas(*)
    0-1-0 4th,
    8th,
    9th,
    12th/12
    Chivas 0-4-1 12th/12
    2006 RSL(*),
    Columbus(*)
    0-2-0 10th,
    12th/12
    N.Y.,
    RSL(*)
    0-1-5,
    0-5-1
    8th,
    10th/12
    2007 Toronto(*) 0-4-0 13th/13 RSL(*) 0-5-6 12th/13
    2008 Toronto(*),
    S.J.(*)
    0-2-0 12th,
    14th/14
    Houston 0-2-3 2nd/14
    2009 Dallas(*) 0-3-0 11th/15 Columbus 0-2-5 1st/15
    2010 D.C. (*) 0-5-0 16th/16 Dallas,
    D.C.(*)
    0-1-4,
    0-5-0
    4th,
    16th/16
    2011 Seattle,
    Portland(*),
    Chivas(*)
    0-2-0 2nd,
    12th,
    15th/18
    Chivas(*) 0-2-3 15th/18
    2012 Toronto(*) 0-9-0 19th/19 Toronto(*) 0-9-0 19th/19
    2013 Colorado,
    Chicago
    0-2-0 ??,
    ??/19
    Colorado 0-3-2
    (as at Mar-30
    & counting)
    ??/19
    Total 28 teams
    (excl. '13 Colorado, Chicago)
    0-52-0
    (i.e. Avg. ~0-3-0
    over 17 seasons,
    excl. '13 Colorado, Chicago)
    21 teams
    (excl. '13 Colorado)
    0-66-50
    (i.e. Avg. ~0-4-3
    over 17 seasons,
    excl. '13 Colorado)

    (*) Missed Playoffs

    Summary:

    1. In the past 17 seasons, the team with MOL (Most Opening Losses) have ended-up with the Wooden Spoon on just 4 occasions (2007, 08, 10 & 12). The same odds (23.53%) applies to the MOLT (Most Opening Losses & Ties, i.e. Longest Winless Start) teams too (4 occasions: 1998, 2005, 10 & 12).​

    2. Going by the total number of "leading teams" (28, excl. '13 Colorado, Chicago), the odds became even lower (4/28=14.23%).​

    3. The longest MOL streak: 0-9-0 by Toronto in 2012. The longest MOLT streak: 0-5-6 (11 winless games) by S.J./RSL in 1999/2007. The shortest losing/winless starts were just 1 & 2 games respectively.​

    4. Thanks to MLS' generous playoff structure (especially in the early years), only 14 of 28 (50%) MOL "leaders" have missed the playoffs. The odds are even lower for MOLT teams (9/21=42.85%). Worst starts don't matter in MLS, do they?​

    5. Surprisingly, D.C. have been the MOL leaders in 4 seasons, the most among all teams (coincidentally the same number of wins as their MLS Cups/Supporters' Shields). On the other hand, N.E. is the dominant MOLT team, with 4 worst starts in 1998, 2000-02 (3 seasons straight!!).​

    6. On the contray, a number of teams with the worst starts have in fact finished among the tops, including Columbus (Supporters' Shield 2004 & 09!!), Chicago (SS Runners-up 2000), Houston (SS Runners-up 2008) and Seattle (SS Runners-up 2011). D.C. 1996 & L.A. 2005 even won the MLS Cups!!! Another proof that worst starts don't really matter in MLS...​

    7. On 4 occasions, the same team have "monopolize" the MOL & MOLT tags in a season, they are N.E. (2001-02), Columbus (2004) & Toronto (2012).​

    Hence, fans of Chicago/Colorado need not hit the panic buttons yet...
     
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  3. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    To add on, for 2013, the title for the last MOLT (win-less) team is actually still up for grabs even though Colorado is currently "leading" with 5 games:

    Team Records (as
    at Mar-30)
    Win-less
    Opening
    Games
    Next Game
    Colorado 0-3-2 5 Apr-6, vs R.S.L.
    Portland 0-1-3 4 Apr-6, vs Houston
    Chicago 0-3-1 4 Apr-7, vs N.Y.
    Seattle 0-3-1 4 Apr-13, vs N.E.

    Any guesses on who will secure the honor in 2013?
     
  4. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Coincidentally, all the winless team in action this week won their respective games (all broke the duck at home sweet home), leaving Seattle as the only team without a win so far.

    Depending on the results of Seattle upcoming game(s), either they or Colorado will hold the tag of MOLT (most winless opening games) team, though Colorado is still "leading" with 5 games:

    Team Records (as
    at Apr-7)
    Win-less
    Opening
    Games
    Next Game
    Colorado 1-3-2 5 (0-3-2) Apr-6, 1-0 vs R.S.L.
    Portland 1-1-3 4 (0-1-3) Apr-6, 2-0 vs Houston
    Chicago 1-3-1 4 (0-1-3) Apr-7, 3-1 vs N.Y.
    Seattle 0-3-1 4 Apr-13, vs N.E.


    Coincidentally again, should Seattle fail to win their 5th game of the season vs N.E., their next opponent in Game 6 will be none other than Colorado themselves, interesting...

    Any guesses on who will secure the honor in 2013?
     
  5. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Suck it Seattle, we got a win.
     
  6. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Seattle didn't win Game 5 and are now sharing the tag of MOLT (most win-less opening games) with Colorado, who are coincidentally their very opponents in the next game:

    Team Records (as
    at Apr-14)
    Win-less
    Opening
    Games
    Next Game
    Colorado 2-3-2 5 (0-3-2) Apr-20, vs Seattle
    Seattle 0-3-2 5 (0-3-2) Apr-20, @ Colorado


    Only a win will do for Seattle to shake off the tag, else they will be in sole possession of the honor for 2013...

    Interesting!!!
     
  7. tigersoccer2005

    tigersoccer2005 Member+

    Dec 1, 2003
    North Bergen, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How I wish there was a real last place trophy :(
    Oh Spoon how we need thee!:p
     
  8. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    It's done in Six Nations Cup...
    http://www.glimpseofscotland.co.uk/six-nations-championship-history-rules-and-more/

    [​IMG]
     
  9. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    It's done, after the road win on Apr-20, Seattle now share the honors with Colorado as the teams with MOLT (most win-less opening games) in 2013.

    With that, per past stats, the odds are 23.53% for each to finish the season as Wooden Spoons, and 42.85% chance of missing the playoffs...
     
  10. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Another more accurate indicator of Wooden Spoon contenders would be the Goals-per-Game stats.

    Through the history of the league, very few teams (just 9 squads out of 17 seasons) have ended the regular season with less than 1.000 GPG, & there have been no more than 2 teams with this mark in any given season.

    All but 2 ('04 & '07 Colorado) of these teams with <1.000 GPG have ended-up with either the Wooden Spoons or Bottom-2.

    As of now, with almost a quarter of the season underway, there are more than half a dozen teams in the league with <1.000 GPG, those in the bottom-3 in terms of GPG by halfway point of the season will be clear favorites, ;).

     
  11. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Rafa Marquez easily. No player has done less and been so poor compared to his ability.
     
  12. Etienne_72772

    Etienne_72772 Member+

    Oct 14, 1999
    Nery Castillo?

    Lothar Matthaeus?

    Andrew Shue?
     
  13. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
  14. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    The following are the list of head coaches who were at the helm of the bottom-2 teams over the years.

    Thomas Rongen should be the headcoach with the most Wooden Spoons (2: 1998, 2005) and bottom-2 finishes (4: 1996, 1998, 2000, 2005). :p

    Other "successful" coaches (surprisingly) include Sigi Schmid & Frank Yallop, each with a Wooden Spoon and two bottom-2 finishes in total.

    It's going to be a lot tougher to identify the players with the most bottom-2 finishes... Anyone can help!!??

    Season Wooden Spoon Head Coach(es) Bottom-2 Head Coach(es) Remarks
    1996 Colorado Rapids Bob Houghton (1996),
    Roy Wegerle (1996), (Interim)
    New England Revolution Frank Stapleton (Jan 1996–June 96),
    Thomas Rongen (Nov 1996–Aug 98)

    1997 San Jose Earthquakes Laurie Calloway (1996–97),
    Brian Quinn (1997–99)
    New York Red Bulls Carlos Alberto Parreira (Jan 1997–Dec 97) World Cup-winning coach @ N.Y.
    1998 New England Revolution Thomas Rongen (Nov 1996–Aug 98) Sporting Kansas City Ron Newman (1996–99)
    1999 New York Red Bulls Bora Milutinović (Sept 1998–Oct 99) Sporting Kansas City Ron Newman (1996–99),
    Ken Fogarty (1999), (Interim),
    Bob Gansler (April 1999–July 6)
    Another World Cup veteran coach @ N.Y.
    2000 San Jose Earthquakes Lothar Osiander (1999–2000) D.C. United Thomas Rongen Netherlands (1999–01)
    2001 Tampa Bay Mutiny Alfonso Mondelo (2001),
    Perry Van der Beck (2001)
    Colorado Rapids Tim Hankinson (Dec 2000–Dec 2004)
    2002 D.C. United Ray Hudson England (2002–03)
    New York Red Bulls Octavio Zambrano (Jan 2000–Oct 02)
    2003 FC Dallas Mike Jeffries (Jan 2001–Sept 03),
    Colin Clarke (Sept 2003–Dec 03) (interim)
    Los Angeles Galaxy Sigi Schmid United States (1999–Aug 2004)
    2004 Chicago Fire Dave Sarachan (Nov 2002–June 2007) New England Revolution Steve Nicol (Nov 2002–Oct 11)
    2005 Chivas USA Thomas Rongen (Sept 2004–May 05),
    Javier Ledesma (2005) (Interim),
    Hans Westerhof (June 2005–Nov 05)
    Real Salt Lake John Ellinger (Jan 2005–May 2007)
    2006 Columbus Crew Sigi Schmid (20062008) Kansas City Wizards Bob Gansler (April 1999–July 2006),
    Brian Bliss (June 2006–Dec 6), (Interim)

    2007 Toronto FC Mo Johnston Scotland (August 22, 2006 to February 1, 2008) Real Salt Lake John Ellinger (Jan 2005–May 2007),
    Jason Kreis (May 2007–present)

    2008 San Jose Earthquakes Frank Yallop (Nov 2007–Current) Los Angeles Galaxy Ruud Gullit Netherlands (Nov 2007–Aug 2008),
    Cobi Jones (interim) United States (Aug 2008),
    Bruce Arena United States (Aug 2008–present)

    2009 New York Red Bulls Juan Carlos Osorio (Dec 2007–Aug 09),
    Richie Williams (Interim) (Aug 2009–Jan 10)
    San Jose Earthquakes Frank Yallop (Nov 2007–Current)
    2010 D.C. United Curt Onalfo USA (2010–10) Chivas USA Martin Vasquez (Dec 2009–Oct 10)
    2011 Vancouver Whitecaps Teitur Thordarson
    Iceland (2011–May 11),
    Tom Soehn (interim) United States (May 2011–Oct 11)
    New England Revolution Steve Nicol (Nov 2002–Oct 11)
    2012 Toronto FC Aron Winter Netherlands (January 6, 2011 to June 7, 2012),
    Paul Mariner England (June 7, 2012 to January 7, 2013)
    Chivas USA Robin Fraser (April 2011–Nov 12)
    [/LEFT]
     
  15. Hachiko

    Hachiko The Akita on Big Soccer

    Jun 8, 2005
    Long Beach, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Los Angeles has never won the wooden spoon. Don't think it's going to be their year this year. This team is just too...good...:oops:
     
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  16. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Same with Houston, sigh..

    I guess it doesn't count since we've only been around since 2006, but still! I'm going to try to do some research to see if I can find the player(s) with the most spoons.
     
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  17. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    You are right, have amended the previous table as below:

    Team First
    Season
    in MLS
    Number of
    "Spoon-free"
    Seasons
    (through 2012)
    Worst Finishes (Seasons)
    Kansas City 1996 17 11th/12 teams (1998, 1999)
    L.A. 1996 17 9th/10 teams (2003),
    13th/14 teams (2008)
    R.S.L. 2005 8 11th/12 teams (2005),
    12th/13 teams (2007)
    Houston 2006 7 12th/16 teams (2010)
    Seattle 2009 4 7th/19 teams (2012)
    Miami 1998 4
    (folded in 2001)
    9th/12 teams (1999, 2000)
    Philadelphia 2010 3 14th/16 teams (2010)
    Portland 2011 2 17th/19 teams (2012)
    Montreal 2012 1 12th/19 teams (2012)

    • Well done to K.C. & L.A. for holding off the temptations of the Spoon for almost 2 decades, more than double of the closest challengers!!

    • Among them, other than K.C., L.A. and R.S.L., the rest have yet to finish in the bottom-2 as well.

    • And Seattle have never missed the playoffs, even in their worst (regular) season. :thumbsup:
     
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  18. Hachiko

    Hachiko The Akita on Big Soccer

    Jun 8, 2005
    Long Beach, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank you for the correction.
     
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  19. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    My pleasure, also removed Chivas from the Spoon-free Table, as they already won it in 2005.
     
    Hachiko repped this.
  20. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    In Summary, 9 teams have yet to win the Wooden Spoon so far:
    • Kansas City, L.A., R.S.L., Houston, Seattle, Miami, Philadelphia, Portland, & Montreal.

    12 other teams have won it at least once over the past 17 seasons:
    • 3 times: San Jose (1997, 2000, 2008);
    • 2 times: N.Y. (1999, 2009), D.C. (2002, 2010) & Toronto (2007, 2012);
    • 1 time: Colorado (1996), N.E. (1997), Tampa (2001), Dallas (2003), Chicago (2004), Chivas (2005), Columbus (2006) & Vancouver (2011).

    By the way, Vancouver of 2011 were the only "new" winners since 2008, we'll see if any new team will take the honors in 2013, or if there will be a "repeat" by 1 of the former winners (as things stand, D.C. are in danger of matching the 3 wins by S.J.)...
     
  21. Usmaman

    Usmaman Member

    Jun 22, 2005
    NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
  22. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Recent Article on the topic:
    MLS Wooden Spoons: Which club has finished last the most?
    http://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/1hw204/

    Code:
    Club    WSpo    WSpo Years    Seasons Played    WSpo %    Past Names
    Chicago Fire (1998-)  --------------------  1    2004    15    6.67    -
    Chivas USA (2005-)  ---------------------  1    2005    8    12.50    -
    Colorado Rapids (1996-)  ----------------  1    1996    17    5.88    -
    Columbus Crew (1996-)  -----------------  1    2006    17    5.88    -
    D.C. United (1996-)  ----------------------  2    2002, 2010    17    11.76    -
    FC Dallas (1996-)  -------------------------  1    2003    17    5.88    Dallas Burn (1)
    Houston Dynamo (2006-)  ---------------  0    -    7    0.00    Houston 1836
    Los Angeles Galaxy (1996-)  --------------  0    -    17    0.00    -
    Miami Fusion (1998-2001)  ---------------  0    -    4    0.00    -
    Montreal Impact (2012-)  ------------------  0    -    1    0.00    -
    New England Revolution (1996-)  ---------  1    1998    17    5.88    -
    New York Red Bulls (1996-)  ---------------  2    1999, 2009    17    11.76    New York/New Jersey MetroStars (1)
    Philadelphia Union (2010-)  ----------------  0    -    3    0.00    -
    Portland Timbers (2011-)  -------------------  0    -    2    0.00    -
    Real Salt Lake (2005-)  -----------------------  0    -    8    0.00    -
    San Jose Earthquakes (1996-2005, 2008-)    3    1997, 2000, 2008    15    20.00    San Jose Clash (1)
    Seattle Sounders FC (2009-)  -----------------  0    -    4    0.00    -
    Sporting Kansas City (1996-)  -----------------  0    -    17    0.00    Kansas City Wiz, Kansas City Wizards
    Tampa Bay Mutiny (1996-2001)  --------------  1    2001    6    16.67    -
    Toronto FC (2007-)  -----------------------------  2    2007, 2012    6    33.33    -
    Vancouver Whitecaps FC (2011-)  --------------  1    2011    2    50.00    -
     
  23. tigersoccer2005

    tigersoccer2005 Member+

    Dec 1, 2003
    North Bergen, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    halfway through the season and the faves for spoon 2013 are Chivas USA, Toronto, and DC :p
     
  24. firefan2001

    firefan2001 Member+

    Dec 27, 2000
    Oswego, Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Record for least amount of goals scored and lowest GFA belong to DC United. 21 goals scored for a 0.70 average in 2012 (30 game season).

    Currently they have 8 goals in 19 games for a 0.42 average. They might have less goals in a 34 game season then they had in a 30 game season.
     
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  25. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    The team that finishes last should have to be skins for the following season. Or wear their opponents 3rd jerseys.
     
    Honore de Ballsac and henryo repped this.

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