The best players of the season 1985-6

Gullit also played as libero very often.

I quote from another thread:

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Line-ups notice him as:

1985/1986PSV - Haarlem 1:0 - right-winger
Den Bosch - PSV 0:2 - center-forward
PSV - Fortuna Sittard 2:1 - center-forward - 1 goal
Ajax - PSV 2:4 - center-forward - 2 goals
PSV - Twente 4:0 - center-forward - 1 goal (the first)
Sparta - PSV 1:1 - center-forward - 1 goal
PSV - Excelsior 4:0 - central-defender
MVV - PSV 0:6 - central-defender - 1 goal (the second)
PSV - AZ 4:0 - central-defender
NEC - PSV 2:5 - central-defender - 1 goal
Groningen - PSV 1:6 - central-defender
PSV - VVV 3:0 - central-defender
Heracles - PSV 0:2 - central-defender
PSV - Roda JC 5:0 - central-defender
Go Ahead - PSV 1:3 - right-winger - 2 goals
PSV - Feyenoord 5:0 - central-defender
Utrecht - PSV 0:3 - central-defender - 1 goal
Haarlem - PSV 0:2 - central-defender
PSV - Den Bosch 2:1 - central-defender - 1 goal
Excelsior - PSV 0:1 - central-defender - 1 goal
PSV - Ajax 1:1 - central-defender
Twente - PSV 1:3 - central-defender - 1 goal
PSV - MVV 3:0 - central-defender - 1 goal
AZ - PSV 0:1 - central-midfielder
PSV - NEC 2:0 - central-defender
PSV - Groningen 0:0 - central-defender
VVV - PSV 0:3 - center-forward
Fortuna Sittard - PSV 2:2 - central-defender - 1 goal
PSV - Sparta 1:1 - central-defender
PSV - Heracles 5:0 - center-forward - 3 goals
Roda - PSV 1:4 - center-forward - 2 goals
PSV - Go Ahead 8:2 - center-forward - 2 goals
Feyenoord - PSV 2:3 - right-winger - 2 goals
PSV - Utrecht 1:1 - center-forward

24 goals

[....]

As explanation I posted this:

I doubt whether he was better as Platini but he was definitely better as in the subsequent season when he was transferred for a world transfer record.

Anyhow, it did not really matter where he played, he was close to unstoppable. PSV played friendlies against Brazilian top sides and those athletic Brazilians were outmuscled and outpaced too.

Back then many thought by the way that Van Basten and Gullit could not play together, or at least that you not get the best out of them.

Belgian league had one of the most classic/legendary games off all-time. Two teams ended on the same amount of points and back then the winner was decided with a play-off game.

With a nice goal of Vercauteren, among others.

 

No other than Rinus Michels said this at the event when Gullit received his 'PFA award' (and became one of the few who won both in the same year, also Jaap Stam and Van Bommel did this but in case of Van Bommel the league was already failing at that stage).

Michels also started with a different striker at euro88 of course, with the same reason in mind (among other concerns) but as said earlier, Van Basten was after his ankle problems a different kind of player as before. Which made playing together perhaps easier.

 

Hopefully get the time tomorrow to add a bit more to this but glad to see comme recognise Paul McStay in this season. I would suggest that his finest year was our centenary year 87-88 but he definitely should make the grade for this year also.

And it pains me to say it but unfortunately for Paul his devotion to Celtic hindered his career. We were truly awful during the 90's and he didn't deserve to have to toil in those teams with players who didn't deserve to be playing next to him.

I wish now, with the benefit of hindsight, that he'd moved abroad. There was always plenty of interest in his services and, dare I say it, if he had done we may even have seen him get *** stars on here as I'm sure his game would have reached the heights it deserved but never attained by staying true to the club he loved.

 

Last thing about Gullit:

I was looking for a video where he plays as libero for national team and made "Koeman-like" long passes. Of course he was not as good as Koeman in that department but he made a few nice strikes with pace and precision from the deep. Impressive to watch but it seems that they are banned from youtube. A pity, exactly because it shows his ability in something where he was not renowned for.

Gullit was also invited to feature in the starting line-up in an official FIFA XI in July 1986 in the Rose Bowl.
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/fifa-xi.html

But he was injured and just as Platini, Elkjaer and Lineker he did not play.

Interesting is that Beckenbauer and Cruijff were the coach for the European all star team. Cruijff however aborted on the last moment. It was planned that Cruijff would play for one half as well (just to show what a 39 years old man can do, haha).
Even more interesting is that selecting Gullit was not Cruijff his idea but the one of Beckenbauer.


Last thing:

I watched a great documentary series about Soviet football a while ago.

As known, the Soviet Union was one of the pioneers in applying mathematical computer models at football. They kept a file of Gullit since 1982! Long before he became a world star the Soviet thought, with high priority even, "we should track this guy". Really.
All world stars were caught in a computer model. That is what they tried at least. Platini and Van Basten had very high values in the dimensions of those models - in some dimensions even the maximum value or close to it. Interesting is that Maradona, for whatever reason, did not score as high as the two above.

Gullit however was a problem for them. He was the only one of all world stars, and one of the three in their priority file with over 500 names they could not properly model. In the words of a former member of Lobanovsky his staff and Mikhailichenko he transcended the theoretical boundaries of what was possible. They could not reflect or copy him in a computer model. They could model Platini or Van Basten in a satisfactory way but not Gullit.

Of course, it did not mean that Gullit was the best or whatever. I do not want to suggest that. But I found this a funny thing to share. In a way he departed from the conventional parameters apparently.

 

Who is the one with the best technique you saw? Or the group of players with the best technique?

 

?

 

Yes, I see what you mean, therefore I also asked for 'group of players'. I agree that technique have many different components.

Indeed, Van Basten was one of my youth idols and the conceptions people develop in their youth tends to become an idealized form of reality; as if that was the purest way to play the game. An image set in stone.
In a different way also Michael Laudrup was one of my idols. Laudrup looked even more "in control" without a sweat but had on the other hand not the same variety of trickery or surprising solutions. His younger brother Brian Laudrup was more fond of the one-touch plays and back-heels.

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[shitty music at the beginning but images are nice]

For me the 'greatest combination of technique and physicality' was I think Ronaldinho. Incredibly strong and a very impressive posture. Also great skill and by that I do not only mean the flashy stepovers and tricks but also the trapping, one touch play, variety of passing and variety of goals he scored (long, short, power, lobs etcetera). The whole range of imagination.
People often talk about the Brazilian Ronaldo but IMO he was technically not close to perfection despite being a true phenomenon (arguably the only 'world all-time player' who could unintentionally copy Cruyff his trademark "double acceleration" move - don't know how it is called in English but here it is called "double acceleration" or "acceleration within an acceleration"). Of course he had an abundance of technique but not the same flawless trapping or elegance or prowess (as Ronaldinho).

Yes, I see what you mean that it has many aspects and applications but if weigh every pro and cons then Ronaldinho comes very close arguably.

 

I see that you included Vanenburg as well. Without wanting to sound too nationalistic but he was renowned for his good technique and especially his poise, balance and quick footwork as well. But technique has so many different aspects indeed.
He was sometimes compared with Scifo by the way, some with too much homerism said "Scifo at fast-forward".



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ivi6VuaSk_k#t=178s
[goal at 3:05]

In this brief preview of a longer documentary (aired in Holland and Belgium) Van Basten says it too:

"He processed the ball under his feet, from left to right and the other way around. Very quick, speedy with his feet and what surprised people was that he did constantly new things with the ball. He was better as me on the age of 15, 16 and 17. He was the big prospect."

Just as Scifo he never lived up to expectations although Scifo had a better international career overall I'd say. It has been suggested that he was born in the wrong age too.

Anyhow, he was during the mid 80s renowned for his great technique too just as Scifo (but I rank Scifo a fair bit higher overall).

Olaf Thon also spring to mind as someone who caused a big roar and buzz, even in the Netherlands yes. Littbarski too of course but that was already an established name.

 

Found some good Gullit videos as well:

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From this era:


Later eras:

Received in some ways not the same respect as other 'stars' in his own country. Was during his playing days and also nowadays the subject in many jokes, laughing about him and so on. He did not always took himself very seriously and others neither. Rijkaard is funnily higher respected, one might say.
He is maybe also a bit too much the extravagant, extrovert glamorous cosmopolitan citizen for others and TBH I never liked him too as person. Is also collaborating with Murdoch unfortunately.

 

I'd give Paul McStay a * rating for this season. He collected his 2nd league title medal this season as Celtic dramatically snatched the title from Hearts on the last day of the season(a game in which McStay scored and also assisted in) and had also forced his way into international selection.

Paul McStay was a wonderful centre mid. Not for nothing was he called 'the maestro'. He had excellent vision and control and range of passing to match it. He had his downside as well. He could have been a bit more composed at times when goal scoring opportunities came his way but Paul was the provider, not the finisher of chances. In saying that he was a terrific striker of a ball and should have scored more than he did. The youtube video below highlights this but also shows glimpses of his all round ability. Admittedly this video includes matches throughout his career and not just the 85-86 season -



Below are the highlights of the last game of the season against St.Mirren that clinched the title. You can see how heavily involved Paul McStay is, and also Mo Johnston and Brian McLair. All 3 played a part in the 3rd goal that was rightly called 'goal of the season' and is still known as one of Celtic's finest goals to date both for the build up of the goal and the crucial match it was scored in.



Both McClair and Johnston were pivotal in helping us win the title by and large due to our excellent form in the 2nd half of the season but I'm not certain either should be considered for inclusion in the 85-86 list. As I mentioned on a previous thread, they formed an excellent partnership on the field but were like chalk and cheese off it and did not get along too well.





* Also worth noting regarding McStay, but bares no semblance to this thread is the fact that Paul McStay captained the Scotland U-18's to glory in the UEFA U-18 European Championship in 1981. To date, it is still the only major trophy won by the Scottish Football Association.*

 

Why was Lineker #1 in your view?

 

Sorry for late reply.

Yes, agree it makes sense. Was curious because Lineker had a excellent 1986WC but was in tournament previews, though mentioned, rarely marked as possible star of the tournament (like Maradona, Platini etc.). Maybe journalists are just lazy and go along with the hype machine, and follow what others plug, but nevertheless funny.
What are your thoughts about the aspects that brought Maradona at the World Cup to a few classes higher? You do not rank him here as best player of the season and can agree that evidence available hints that (i.e. 84-85 was better, also based on own impressions) but that makes it astonishing that he could find a few extra gears. The question is why (excellent coach?) and how.

What were your considerations for rating 'young' Michel as world class? Instead of Butragueno or another RM player.

Saw a while ago an Italian Gazzetta preview that mentions "stars who did not make the World Cup". I know it is anecdotal but they mentioned a few Swedish, Yugoslavian players but also some Romanian players and Gullit/Van Basten (they saw the first one as -possibly- the most expensive European player to buy around at that time). So including a fair share of Romanian players is a good call I think.

 

I suppose this doesn't include the WC, otherwise it's Maradona several notches above anyone. If we take out the WC, Lineker should not be #1, as players like Platini, Boniek, Schuster and Elkjaer all had better years. Also, it seems your excluding those playing outside of Europe, don't see Francescoli, Bochini, Romero, Socrates or Cabanas listed.

 

Good preparation plus a team built around a great player plus a coach who nurtured this player means a potential great performance, as happened with Zidane at WC06, Romario at WC94, Baggio at WC94, Ronaldo at WC98. The difference from those great performances with Maradona's at WC86 is Maradona himself: the most talented footballer of all time in his moment.

 

Did you consider to rate Laudrup higher? It is by some seen as his best Juventus season and many of his team mates have said that he had a big input. Unfortunately for him, the stars started to fade from then on (Scirea, Platini, Cabrini etcetera).

Mentioned/talked it on PM to PDG but this one has all his goals in serie A


I personally noticed that a big share of those goals were of high quality, although he did not score a lot.

 

I'd possibly consider categorising him as an AM or winger even rather than forward but my knowledge of the line-up week in week out is not complete:


I've only watched the highlights but here is the full game:

Here's another (Platini was Man of the Match and I know that an individual video is available for him):


Basically I think Laudrup took Boniek's role, which wasn't as a central SS in my understanding. Often as a nominally left sided AM I'd say but that is almost the role of a forward anyway and quite a free role I think (but not the same as Belanov, Elkjaer etc were playing). The tap-in goal vs Milan for example on the goals video has him wearing number 8 and coming in from the right side so maybe he played a different role at times. To be fair to comme, the average rating for him was good but not unbelievable that season and his goals stats indeed don't stand out - perhaps neither his assists stats from what I've seen of Juve goals for the season but you might know more than me about that Puck. Anyway, just as at Barca and for Denmark (and like you said this applied to Maradona too) his stats won't reveal his quality of play really and he was highly regarded particularly for that season I believe.
He comes off well in this video I think, but of course it's just one game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFN0nOML5eI

 

Schuster had a very good season that year, and I remember Barcelona reaching all the way to the final of the EC86 based on his play and leadership, their loss there had mostly to do with Steau parking the bus plus a bad game from Barca's strikers.