After making the All-Time Peru Squad and the All-Time Argentina Squad, I've completed my third all-time squad: Brazil. I've posted the full article in my blog: Selección Histórica de Brasil. This is the summary ranking of the 25-men squad: 01 GK GILMAR 04 CB CARLOS ALBERTO 23 SW DOMINGOS da Guia 02 RB DJALMA SANTOS 12 LB NÍLTON SANTOS 05 DM TONINHO CEREZO 06 CM DIDÍ 08 AM ZICO 07 RW GARRINCHA 10 FW PELÉ 09 CF RONALDO 22 GK LEAO, Émerson 13 CB LUÍS PEREIRA 14 RB CAFÚ 03 LB ROBERTO CARLOS 16 DM DANILO ALVIM 15 CM FALCAO 20 CM GÉRSON 18 AM SÓCRATES 19 AM ZIZINHO 17 AM RIVELINO 21 AM RONALDINHO 24 AM RIVALDO 25 FW LEONIDAS 11 CF ROMÁRIO And these are my positional rankings: Goalkeepers 01. GILMAR (Gylmar dos Santos Neves) 02. LEAO, Émerson 03. TAFFAREL, Cláudio 04. BARBOSA, Moacir 05. CASTILHO, Carlos José 06. MANGA (Haílton Correa de Arruda) 07. JÚLIO CÉSAR (Júlio César Soares de Espíndola) 08. MARCOS (Marcos Roberto Silveira Reis) 09. DIDA (Nélson de Jesus Silva) 10. JAGUARÉ (Jaguaré Bezerra de Vasconcelos) 11. WALDIR PERES (Waldir Peres de Arruda) 12. ROGÉRIO CENI 13. ZETTI (Armelino Donizetti Quagliato) 14. CARLOS GERMANO (Carlos Germano Schwambach Neto) 15. JOAO LEITE (Joao Leite da Silva Neto) Central Defenders 01. DOMINGOS (Domingos da Guia) 02. LUÍS PEREIRA 03. LÚCIO (Lucimar Ferreira da Silva) 04. MAURO RAMOS (Mauro Ramos de Oliveira) 05. BELLINI, Hilderaldo 06. ORLANDO (Orlando Peçanha de Carvalho) 07. EDINHO (Edino Nazareth Filho) 08. ALDAIR (Aldair Nascimento dos Santos) 09. JÚLIO CÉSAR (Júlio César da Silva) 10. ÓSCAR (Óscar Bernardi) 11. ZÓZIMO (Zózimo Alves Calazans) 12. DIAS, Roberto 13. THIAGO SILVA (Thiago Emiliano da Silva) 14. DJALMA DIAS (Djalma Pereira Dias Júnior) 15. RICARDO ROCHA (Ricardo Roberto Barreto da Rocha) Right-backs 01. DJALMA SANTOS (Djalma Pereira Dias dos Santos) 02. CARLOS ALBERTO (Carlos Alberto Torres) 03. CAFÚ (Marcos Evangelista de Moraes) 04. LEANDRO (José Leandro de Souza Ferreira) 05. DANI ALVES (Daniel Alves da Silva) 06. MAICON (Maicon Douglas Sisenando) 07. NELINHO (Manuel Rezende de Mattos Cabral) 08. JORGINHO (Jorge de Amorim Campos) 09. DE SORDI, Nílton 10. ZÉ MARÍA (José María Rodrigues Alves) 11. JOSIMAR (Josimar Higino Pereira) 12. HUMBERTO (Humberto Monteiro) Left-backs 01. NÍLTON SANTOS (Nílton Reis dos Santos) 02. ROBERTO CARLOS (Roberto Carlos da Silva Rocha) 03. JÚNIOR (Leovegildo Lins da Gama Júnior) 04. MARINHO CHAGAS (Francisco das Chagas Marinho) 05. BRANCO (Cláudio Ibraim Vaz Leal) 06. EVERALDO (Everaldo Marques da Silva) 07. MARCO ANTONIO (Marco Antonio Feliciano) 08. WLADIMIR (Wladimir Rodrigues dos Santos) 09. RILDO (Rildo da Costa Menezes) 10. RODRIGUES NETO (José Rodrigues Neto) 11. DALMO (Dalmo Gaspar) 12. ORECO (Valdemar Rodrigues Martins) Defensive Midfielders 01. TONINHO CEREZO (Antonio Carlos Cerezo) 02. DANILO ALVIM 03. ZITO (José Ely de Miranda) 04. CLODOALDO (Clodoaldo Tavares de Santana) 05. MAURO SILVA (Mauro da Silva Gomes) 06. BAUER, José Carlos 07. DUNGA (Carlos Caetano Bledorn Verri) 08. FAUSTO (Fausto dos Santos) 09. PIAZZA (Wilson da Silva Piazza) 10. ALEMAO (Ricardo Rogério de Brito) 11. ÉMERSON (Émerson Ferreira da Rosa) 12. GILBERTO SILVA (Gilberto Aparecido da Silva) 13. ROBERTO (Roberto Belangero) 14. CÉSAR SAMPAIO 15. FORTES, Agostinho Central Midfielders 01. DIDÍ (Valdir Pereira) 02. FALCAO, Paulo Roberto 03. GÉRSON (Gérson de Oliveira Nunes) 04. DINO SANI 05. CARPEGIANI, Paulo César 06. ZÉ ROBERTO (José Roberto da Silva Júnior) 07. LIMA (Antonio Lima dos Santos) Attacking-midfielders 01. ZICO (Arthur Antunes Coimbra) 02. SÓCRATES (Sócrates Brasileiro Sampaio de Souza Vieira de Oliveira) 03. ADEMIR (Ademir da Guia) 04. DIRCEU (Dirceu José Guimaraes) 05. RAÍ (Raí Souza Vieira de Oliveira) 06. DIRCEU LOPES 07. LEONARDO (Leonardo Nascimento de Araújo) 08. MENGÁLVIO (Mengálvio Pedro Figueiró) 09. JUNINHO Pernambucano (Antonio Augusto Ribeiro Reis Júnior) 10. ÁLEX (Alexsandro de Souza) 11. JUNINHO Paulista (Osvaldo Giroldo Júnior) 12. DIEGO (Diego Ribas da Cunha) 13. SILAS (Paulo Silas do Prado Pereira) 14. JAIR (Jair Gonçalves Prates) 15. MARCELINHO CARIOCA (Marcelo Pereira Surcin) Deep-lying forwards 01. ZIZINHO (Tomás Soares da Silva) 02. RIVELINO (Roberto Rivellino) 03. RONALDINHO (Ronaldo de Assis Moreira) 04. RIVALDO (Rivaldo Vítor Borba Ferreira) 05. KAKÁ (Ricardo Izecson dos Santos Leite) 06. JAIR (Jair da Rosa Pinto) 07. CAJU (Paulo Cézar Lima) 08. DIDA (Edvaldo Alves de Santa Rosa) 09. DJALMINHA (Djalma Feitosa Dias) 10. TIM (Elba de Pádua Lima) 11. AMALFI, Yeso 12. PAULO ISIDORO (Paulo Isidoro de Jesús) 13. ROMEU (Romeu Pellicciari) 14. BAPTISTA, Júlio 15. CHINESINHO (Sidney Colonia Cunha) Right-wingers 01. GARRINCHA (Manuel Francisco dos Santos) 02. JAIRZINHO (Jair Ventura Filho) 03. JULINHO (Júlio Botelho) 04. JAIR (Jair da Costa) 05. RENATO GAÚCHO (Renato Portaluppi) 06. JOEL (Joel Antonio Martins) 07. DORVAL (Dorval Rodrigues) 08. TESOURINHA (Osmar Fortes Barcellos) 09. FRIAÇA (Albino Friaça Cardoso) 10. CANÁRIO (Darcy Silveira dos Santos) Left-wingers 01. PEPE (José Macia) 02. CANHOTEIRO (José Ribamar de Oliveira) 03. ZAGALLO, Mário 04. ZINHO (Crizam César de Oliveira Filho) 05. ÉDER (Éder Aleixo de Assis) 06. EDÚ (Jonas Eduardo Américo) 07. LUIZINHO (Luís Trochillo) 08. CHICO (Francisco Aramburu) 09. RODRIGUES, Francisco 10. JOAOZINHO (Joao Soares de Almeida Filho) Forwards 01. PELÉ (Edson Arantes do Nascimento) 02. LEONIDAS (Leonidas de Silva) 03. TOSTAO (Eduardo Gonçalves de Andrade) 04. BEBETO (José Roberto Gama de Oliveira) 05. AMARILDO (Amarildo Tavares da Silveira) 06. PERÁCIO, José 07. EDMUNDO (Edmundo Alves de Souza Neto) 08. CLÁUDIO (Cláudio Christóvam de Pinho) 09. LEIVINHA (Joao Leiva Campos Filho) 10. PAGAO (Paulo César Araújo) 11. NIGINHO (Leonídio Fantoni) 12. ROBINHO (Robson de Souza) 13. DELÉM (Vladem Lázaro Ruiz Quevedo) 14. TUPAZINHO (José Ernani da Rosa) 15. MÜLLER (Luís Antonio Correa da Costa) Centre-forwards 01. RONALDO (Ronaldo Luís Nazário de Lima) 02. ROMÁRIO (Romário de Souza Faria) 03. ADEMIR (Ademir Marques de Menezes) 04. FRIEDENREICH, Arthur 05. CARECA (Antonio de Oliveira Filho) 06. ALTAFINI, José 07. HELENO (Heleno de Freitas) 08. COUTINHO (Antonio Wilson Vieira Honório) 09. QUARENTINHA (Waldir Cardoso Lebrego) 10. REINALDO (José Reinaldo de Lima) 11. VAVÁ (Edvaldo Izídio Neto) 12. ROBERTO DINAMITE (Carlos Roberto de Oliveira) 13. EVARISTO (Evaristo de Macedo) 14. ÉLBER, Giovane (Élber Giovane de Souza) 15. DADÁ MARAVILHA (Dario José dos Santos) 16. VALENTIM, Paulo 17. BALTAZAR (Oswaldo Silva) 18. ADRIANO (Adriano Leite Ribeiro) 19. ÍNDIO (Aluísio Francisco da Luz) 20. TONINHO GUERREIRO (Antonio Ferreira) 21. JARDEL, Mário (Mário Jardel de Almeida Ribeiro) 22. TELECO (Uriel Fernandes)
I don't know much about him but WALDO (Waldo Machado da Silva) should probably be in the top 20 of the Centre-Forwards, no? All-time top scorer of Fluminense with 319 goals (0.80 gpg) and then 160 goals with Valencia (0.54). Won 1 Carioca scoring title, 2 Torneio Rio-SP scoring titles and 1 Pichichi. Also 5 caps, 2 goals for Brazil.
Mauro Silva can't be the fifth greatest DM in the greatest team ever. Roberto Dinamite is underrated here, compared with Reinaldo.
Why not? He was a beast for Depor. Who would you suggest ahead of him anyway? Dunga had an average club career and is only on that list based entirely on his NT career and esp. his '94 and '98 WC performances (where he was excellent though). The rest are worse.
The choice is made only by what they did for Brazil NT? If not, missing defender Mauro Galvao, one of the best in the history of Brazilian football. He played the World Cups of 1986 and 1990. At 90, he was the libero in 3-5-2. Just not played the tournament of 98 by prejudice against older players, but at the time Mauro was the best defender in activity in Brazil. The friends here accompanying the Brazil NT decades will remember him for sure...
Outstanding 25-man squad, although only two centerbacks? I know it's their weakness, along with goalies, but I would have included Aldair ahead of D Alvim. Still an excellent selection, I cannot disagree on anything else.
I agree that he was great, but not better defensively than Mauro Silva for me. He was more all-round and had often very good attacking moves (esp. in 1-2s with Maradona or Careca) and could score. Mauro Silva was more vital in Depor's golden period though I feel, than Alemão for any team.
Very good list and line up Peru. However I have a few minor details (from a Brazilian fan point of view): 1- CB: Aldair is kinda underated - should be in TOP5 2- RB: It's a very very close call between D.Santos and Carlos Alberto in #1, (like most expert list would put Carlos name first) but its ok in either case. 3- DM: Its funny to see Cerezo as #1 in DM!!! He was NOT a DM in first place, and even we like him to be one, Dunga or Clodoaldo would be a MUCH BETTER choice. Here, Dunga and Coloaldo should be in TOP3. Move Cerezo into Center Midfield 4- FW You missed Dirceu in the FW list - he was even better than Edmundo and Robinho in such list. 5- CFW: R. Dinamite should be a FW (rather tahn CFW or striker) 6- AM vs "deep-lying FW I am not sure why you separate "deep-lying FW" from FW or AM? as some names were wrongly placed in eitehr position: - Rivelino should be AM (not a FW in any sense) - Pele should be a "deep-lying FW" category (since you add it in) Other than that look great!
If you are considering players overall career, than your squad is really great. Now, giving a brazilian view of things, 2 years ago, some brazilian journalists voted for their brazilian dream team. The team: Gilmar C. Torres Mauro Ramos Luis Pereira Nilton Santos Falcão Didi Rivelino Pelé Garrincha Romario Coach: Telê Santana http://mundosantista.com.br/blogs/entry/Qual-seria-a-sele-o-brasileira-de-todos-os-tempos
My version: This Brazil ALL TIME XI is based on WC performance and overall career of their names, Formation is 3 4 1 2 : 1- Goal Keeper: Leao is selected for his WC performance 2- Defense: with Dunga a main DM and Carlos Alberto a libero. While both flanks are covered with Nilton and Dajlma Santos 3- MIdfield: Didi is the captain and the boss of midfield so Pele, Zico both have all the freedom to move up down depends on situation. as Rivelino will cover the left and shall be switching task with Pele and Zico. 4- FW: Ronaldo is the cneter foward with a bit freedom playing in sync with Pele from behind. Garrincha covers the right wing in attack. ==================================================================================== #11 Rivelino (6goals+5ass/12games WC) All star team WC70 #10: Pele (12goals+9ass/14games WC) Goldenball WC70 + Silverboot WC58 + Silverball WC58 #9: Ronaldo (15goals+5ass/19games WC) Goldenball WC98 + Goldenboot WC02 + Silverball WC02 #8: Zico (5goals+4ass/8games WC) Bronzeboot WC82 #7: Garrincha (5goals+6ass/10games WC) Goldenball WC62 + Goldenboot WC62 #6: Didi (3goals+2ass/13games WC) Goldenball WC58 #5: Dunga (2ass/12games WC) All star team WC94 and 98 #4: Carlos Alberto (1goal/6games WC) All star team WC70 #3: Nilton Santos (all star team WC58) #2: D.Santos (All star team WC54, 58 and 62) #1: Leao (rated as best GK at WC by Castrol ranking from 66-10) This whole team combined had produced a possible 46goals at WC level!
You're right about Cerezo, he was always a CM, a very well balanced player in defensive/ofensive skills. In his last years in Serie-A and in his Sao Paulo years, Cerezo was recognized mostly for his playmaking skills, leaving to another ones the defensive job. Note that Didi and Gerson are described as the most ofensive ones among top CMs, close to be an AM (in fact some years they played AM role in both club and NT level) https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/1980s-decade-all-star-lineup.1864996/page-13 In #4, you're refering to Dirceu Lopes? I would agree, since he was a #10 in late 60s. Very different to Dirceu Guimaraes ho was an AM and also a Side Mid. Roberto Dinamite was absolutely a Striker (centroavante) http://www.robertodinamite.com.br/historia.html In your #6, i add to your question the FW list. So i'd said that most names in AM/DLF/FW list are usually mentioned as Playmakers or #10 by brazilian experts.
Other objection i have is about picking C.Alberto in the CB spot. Certainly he could made the Best-XI in any list in the RB spot, just like D.Santos. And is sad, chose one of them and leave out the another. But the truth is that Carlos Alberto when played as a CB (mid to late 70s) in Santos and Cosmos, had a level very far from top-15 (M.Galvao has more merit for a call, like someone said)
Cerezo was a DM. If he is a CM, then others with similar attributes are too. Disagree. Alemao was actually seen as a very modern player at his time who served as screen in front of his defence. Mauro Silva was physically stronger but technically weaker as you say and also not an equally good reader. Deportivo had at that time other very good players. It is a too big stretch to say that a lot depended on him.
tough to make a well balanced team with so manny greats to choose from. formation will be 3-4-1-2 and there is no place for garincha since i play with upcoming backs no need for real wingers in this formation goal : (this is easy brazil always had terrible keepers with the exception of) : gilmar leftback : branco (very underrated nowadays but just as good as roberto carlos in the upcoming and better in the defending). rightback : carlos alberto (the best upcoming back they had) central defender : domingos da guia defensive midfield : toninho cerezo (maybe dunga was slightly better but cerezo was one of my favorite players) leftmidfield : roberto rivelinho rightmidfield : socrates playmaker : didi shadow forward : zico left forward : pele (the man was 2 footded enough to play in this position) right forward : jairzinho ( garincha was a better winger in terms of dribbling etc but jairzinho was way more efficient in keeping pace in the game and also the better goalscorer then garincha) imo this is the best possible solution. maybe it lacks a bit of defensive strength on midfield but with so many great attacking talented players they must be able to beat almost all all time teams (except for the dutch and the argentinians)
And thanks you to confirm that as well ... Cerezo was often called a "Deep Lying Playmaker" - like a Xavi + Pirlo /2 (not so seep as Pirlo and more active like Xavi) Both Didi and Gerson were also playmaker for the team 60% AM and 40% CM Yes that Dirceau was a skillful AM/FW that people underated due to Brazil downtime I agree that Dinamite was a "center forward" for his team most career, but I meant his style was more like a Tevez/Del Pierro (FW and SS) than a true striker like Nisterooy/Crespo
Roberto Dinamite changed over time. In the best moment of career, he also knew player more indented, setting the plays from behind and giving passes...
Here is my all-time Brazil XI: Gilmar D Santos Aldair Domingos Da Guia N Santos T Cerezo Didi Zico Garrincha Pele Ronaldo The second team: Taffarel C Alberto Lucio Edinho Junior Dunga Falcao Socrates Rivelino Rivaldo Romario Third team: Leao Jorginho Julio Cesar Pereira Roberto Carlos Gilberto Silva Leonardo Zizinho Bebeto Careca Leonidas
Who told you that? understood you have a good knowledge in football, especially for Holland/Netherland but this is BRAZIL and I can assure CEREZO was NO DM at all. The ONLY time he had to play like (not quite though) a DM was for Brazil at WC (since others Zico Socrates Falcao Eder ... all had better attacking skills than him) Now it's hard to find and list out all games he played in formation but just one example from 1 expert: Read the bold highlight: the DM would be hardly a "bullet to fire the forwards up in attack " (Playmaker role) A DM would NEVER get another DM (Bakero) to "mark tight on him and to stop his magic" - It's so funny to see if a Xabi Alonso would do a marking on an Essein or Makelele to " STOP their magic'" ??? http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2009/07/seba_veron_an_heir_to_cerezo.html A couple of decades ago when I worked in the West End of London, I used to frequent a little Italian café, sadly no longer in existence, so I could watch the Serie A on theirsatellite TV. The main draw for me was a Brazilian midfielder called Toninho Cerezo. One of his compatriots once ingeniously described Cerezo as having the appearance of two little men, one on top of the other, both trying to run in different directions. He could indeed look a little ungainly. But few players have ever run a midfield with so much elegance. He received possession behind the line of the ball, giving him a full panorama of the action in front of him. He passed the ball long and short, and after giving it was immediately on the move to initiate the next phase, and he had an eye for the surprise, killer ball that undresses the defence. I became addicted to Cerezo towards the end of the 1980s, when he was the heart of an excellent Sampdoria side, making the bullets for the likes of Vialli and Mancini to fire. I was lucky enough to be at Wembley for his last, and biggest, game with the club - the 1992 European Cup final. He was 37, but Barcelona paid him the compliment of putting their best midfielder, Bakero, tight on him to stop him working his magic. Meanwhile, Barcelona had a young midfielder who may not have had the same physical dynamism of Cerezo, but was blessed with a similar capacity to understand the game around him and alter its course with a superb range of passing - Pep Guardiola. .... The UNDERLINED did the good justice on what Cerezo was playing and xecelled in!
I think all of Cerezo, Guardiola and Veron were best as #8s (support midfielder). The game I most remember of TC was the Toyota Intercontinental final between Sao Paolo and AC Milan, what a game he had, completely dominating the Rossoneri's midfield (against Albertini, Donadoni and Boban) and being elected man of the match.
Actually Veron was more of a "AM and playmaker" (60% Attack, 30% organize MF and 10% DF). After his peak 2004, he becmae more of a CM and deep playmaker! Cerezo was a "deeplying playmaker" (like Pirlo now) with 45% attack and 40% overall MF 15% DF while Pep was more like a Redondo and Vieira (30% attack, 35% organize MF and 35% defense)
Yes, this is Brazil and I know the Brazilian repertoire. They usually turn their forwards in world class defenders (and goalkeepers too in case of Garrincha and Pelé) and defenders are suddenly Passarellas in disguise. Lets see. The website dbscalcio.it (based on Guerin Sportivo) has Cerezo down as an 'interno' (in 6 of 9 serie A seasons), a libero and as a right sided midfielder. As comparison, Frank Rijkaard, usually seen as a defensive player too, acted as 'interno' too. And just as Cerezo he played also one season at defence. Transforming Cerezo in a playmaker is a Brazilian job. Sorry, but I see him as DM with good ball skills.
My main objection to many teams that i see in this thread, is that they picked 4 defensive players and 6 ofensive ones. And also, among those 4 defensives (3 backline +1 DM) the two fullbacks are very ofensive minded. So, i see those teams very unbalanced.