Reserve league integrating with USLPro

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by PhillyMLS, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. mike4066

    mike4066 Member+

    Jun 30, 2007
    Chula Vista, CA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :thumbsdown: Dude just stop....
     
  2. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    Geez man. Give it a rest. Its not a racist statement. Its backed up by statistics and fact. I come from a family of educators too, so I see it first hand. My Aunt, who is the child of Mexican immigrants is a teacher. She'll be the first one to tell you that getting a job and helping to support the family is more important than going to school for most low income Mexican families.

    And lets face facts. Most of the Mexican families that have immigrated to this country aren't doing so because they are buying vacation homes in Malibu. We're talking about families who are leaving third world level poverty, risking their lives to come here to work menial, low paying, hard labor jobs.

    We live in a country that has gotten so scared of being politically incorrect that any time someone makes any negative statement about another group its automatically labeled as racist. F*ck off. I have more racial diversity and cultural acceptance in my pinky finger than you have in your entire family tree.
     
  3. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    I know a cleaning lady who crossed that desert recently. It was 11 hours in the blazing sun with no food or water. Even a week later, she looked like hell. The reason she does it is that it's the only way she can pay to put her daughter through school.

    You really have no f***ing clue, none at all.
     
    mbsc repped this.
  4. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    That's admirable. And I'm not denigrating people who make that journey.

    But look at drop-out rates. Look at ESL figures for children of immigrants. There are always exceptions. But the numbers seem to suggest that there is a higher value placed on contributing to the finances of the family than there is on education.

    And in case you're wondering, the most recent dropout data I found was from 2010. Dropout rates from the following groups are as follows.

    National average = 7.5%
    Asian/Pacific Islander = 4%
    White = 5%
    African American = 8%
    Hispanics = 15%

    Its double the national average. And as recently as 2007, those dropout numbers were over 20% for Hispanic students.
     
  5. mike4066

    mike4066 Member+

    Jun 30, 2007
    Chula Vista, CA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Going to work to help your family and going to school doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.
    The drop out rate also has more to do with both parents working and not speaking English, leaving the kids to weasel out of school.

    This has nothing to do with being politically correct and everything to do with generalizations and stereotypes.
     
    aetraxx7 repped this.
  6. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    Yep, and I'm guessing that at some point a mod will arrive to bring us back on topic.

    At any rate, one thing that's noticeable in those dropout rates is that the great majority of students are not dropping out, regardless of ethnic background. Most kids are persisting in school, regardless of family economic struggles, language barriers, being stuck in badly funded systems, etc. The stereotypes are wrong.
     
  7. GVPATS77

    GVPATS77 Member+

    Aug 18, 2008
    Fullerton, CA
    I agree. I worked two jobs in high school and managed to be in national honor society and all that crap.

    Both my parents worked. Most every kid I grew up with came from a home where both parents worked.

    It really comes down to not speaking English. Every statistic on education in this country shows that speaking English is paramount to academic success. And that should start at home.

    But enough with the political tangent. If you or Hararea want to continue the conversation in PM I'm open to it.
     
  8. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Statistics can be manipulated. Facts can be true or false. Regardless, you have provided neither.
    If you are not an educator and receiving this information from your family members that are educators, that is second hand knowledge, also known as anecdotal evidence. If you are an educator and are seeing this, then it may be true in your particular school/community, but not necessarily everywhere else.
    If she is a child of Mexican immigrants, then how can she be an educator, according to your statements? Didn't you say that Mexican immigrants do not value education?
    That is true for pretty much anybody that is living below the poverty line, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, or nationality, anywhere.
    I would say that in most cases the parents want the kids to get an education so they are not faced with the same adversity in their lives and with their kids. From my experience, working briefly in a school filled with a mixture of multi-generation Americans and immigrants from Latin America, Africa, and Bosnia, that the parents may not understand everything about American schools, but they want their kids going every day. These are the parents that come to conferences and follow up with the school on discipline, assignments, etc.
    Neither are most native citizens. What is your point?
    We're talking about families who are leaving third world level poverty, risking their lives to come here to work menial, low paying, hard labor jobs.[/quote]And to ensure that their kids have a better life than they did. Ensuring that they get a good education is an important part of that.
    I agree that political correctness is out of control in this country. However, when you make a blanket statement full of prejudice that supports negative stereotypes, how can you not think that it will be taken as racist?
    Are you sure about that? Do you know my family? Do you know me?
     
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  9. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. Which has nothing to do with your previous declaration. Struggling because of language issues is vastly different from not caring about education. The misconception is the latter, which leads to the stereotype you posted earlier.
     
  10. Jossed

    Jossed Member+

    Apr 23, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    So this thread took a turn for the worse.

    Any new leaks about this MLS-USL agreement?
     
  11. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm no expert, but there were some changes that mostly affected players who hadn't gone to college yet (meaning still in HS - mostly focused on Europeans who come up through a club system). As I understand it, a high school athlete can play on a pro/semi-pro team as long as the athlete is not paid for anything other than expenses. An athlete in college with remaining eligibility cannot play on a team in which anyone is paid for playing. Meaning PDL isn't really an option.

    Here's the WPSL overview for the NCAA:
    http://www.wpsl.info/DATA/upload/1/NCAA_Overview.pdf

    And here's what the PDL/W-League have to say:
    http://www.uslsoccer.com/docs/NCAA Guidelines.pdf
     
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  12. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny, my VCU diploma doesn't mention UVA. VCU is a stand-alone university, unaffiliated with UVA. I don't think UVA has any satellite campuses, though I could be wrong since I haven't lived in the state since 1987.
     
  13. mike4066

    mike4066 Member+

    Jun 30, 2007
    Chula Vista, CA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for that....never knew that PDL was 100% amateur and can't be considered semi-pro.

    With that in mind....shouldn't they really be level 5 on the pyramid along with the USASA and USCS?

    NPSL is semi-pro correct? Shouldn't they be level 4?
     
  14. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, as long as they haven't entered college yet. Once they have entered college, it looks like they can't play on a team in which other players are paid to play.
     
  15. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Short version: There is no "pyramid." The USSF only sanctions four men's soccer organizations: MLS, the NASL, the USL-Pro, and the USASA.

    All amateur leagues, including the PDL and the NPSL, are technically sanctioned by the USASA. I believe the PDL and NPSL are considered USASA National leagues, under guidelines set by the USASA, but there's no real "divisions" in men's soccer other than the officially USSF recognized I, II, and III.
     
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  16. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    Small correction. PDL includes some teams that are semi-pro (or at least has in the past). NCAA players can't play on those teams, though.
     
  17. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    According to the linked PDL handout:

    PDL or W-League teams ARE NOT to promote the respective leagues as professional or semi-professional. Both leagues are amateur and are affiliated with US Soccer and US Club Soccer.

    Maybe there are some paid teams, but they don't want a tag that says they do. NCAA rules allow paid teams with no college players, but it seems they don't want anyone calling them anything but "amateur".
     
  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The rules changed a few years back, so there are Semi-pro teams in PDL/NPSL and W-League/WPSL, College kids with NCAA elegibility can't play in the Semi-pro teams, but they can play against Pro/Semi-pro teams.

    This happens every year in the US Open Cup, Amateur teams (PDL/NPSL) playing vs USLPRO/NASL/MLS teams.


    Regarding the NCAA label, you are probably right, they want the teams to be "amateur" even if they are not.
     
  19. SYoshonis

    SYoshonis Member+

    Jun 8, 2000
    Lafayette, Louisiana
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is all true, except that the PDL is not under the auspices of the USASA.
     
  20. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The PDL is not run by the USASA, but it is sanctioned (as a FIFA-authorized league) by the USASA as a USASA National League.
     
  21. canammj

    canammj Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    CHINO, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And this is part of the alphabet soup mix problem we have in this country. USSF needs to get their act together, properly sanction a true pyramid, from MLS all the way down to AYSO. Once that project is done , then the NCAA problem needs to be addressed and how it fits into the pyramid
     
  22. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Well, if the PDL is not under the USASA envelope, is it possible that this move to reconcile MLS and PDL might be intended to bring the latter under the USSF umbrella? Or at least get it rolling in that direction, I would say. I'm not sure what sort of massive legal and fiscal insanity would be required for the USSF to officially cover all five major pro/semipro leagues, but perhaps this is the best way to start?

    Of course, while working in the bottom ranks is all well and good, I would much rather see some significant cooperation between the top three divisions. Get them away from each other's throats, make loans more feasible, allow easier player movement between the ranks, fill out the ranks of all three... gotta say, that sounds more important for the overall strength of our soccer than getting our reserves playing in a semipro/amateur league. Like I said, though, we gotta start where we can.
     
  23. CoconutMonkey

    CoconutMonkey Member

    Aug 3, 2010
    Japan
    Club:
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
  24. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why?

    Seriously; what would this accomplish? We don't have (and are not likely to have) promotion and relegation at any level. So why does it matter whether the PDL or the NPSL is a "higher" league officially? What benefit would the USSF get from this project?

    The "pyramid" is a conceptual way of talking about promotion and relegation. We don't have promotion and relegation. So there is no need for a pyramid.

    The NCAA doesn't see a problem. And they have a lot more money than the USSF does, and zero interest in the USSF.

    Even if they did...the answer is, they don't fit into a "pyramid." They are their own thing, and there's nothing wrong with that. I would love to see some changes in NCAA soccer...but that has nothing to do with "fitting into a pyramid."
     
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  25. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    The pyramid at this stage may have less to do with promotion and relegation than with ease of player movement and loans. I don't know the specifics, but I understand that that is kind of a nightmare sometimes.

    Though for me, at this point, it all just looks like bad housekeeping. Instead of a governing body presiding over and unifying our soccer efforts, we have a couple and they don't seem to agree enough. I personally would much rather see a unified front than a system that isn't exactly broken but doesn't quite coordinate very well at all.
     

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