How can you get injured by a flag Schapes ? Yes banners can be offensive. Do you belive in a world with the freedom off speach ? Speaking your mind at games would to me be one type of involvment and communication.
Let's say someone is swinging a flag and drops it. Again, it would be the club who is made responsible (because of the fact the club has deeper pockets). Freedom of speech yes. The problem is a lot of these games are on television. Stewards would have to look at each and every banner to make sure there isn't inappropriate language (curse words). It is easier to just say no banners. Easier for the game day staff to manage game day operations. Free speech. Yes. You can't yell Fire! In a crowded movie theater though.
The US is a pretty litigious society. I'm sure sometime in the past, someone got hit in the eye with a flagpole and sued. This ban on flags at most stadiums is likely being driven, at least in part, by lawyers and insurance companies. In the US, your right to free speech only deals with government actions. Private parties can ban profanity in their place of business. I don't have a problem with rules banning profanity in stadiums. A loudmouthed, profane drunk shouldn't be allowed to ruin the experience for other fans. You can speak your mind, just don't do it by screaming obscenities.
I suppose it was a bit of a suprising choice. I've been to the last 3 Euro U21 Tournaments and I was hoping it would be somewhere cheaper and possibly closer, in Europe would have been nice. After the expence of Sweden and Denmark I'm going to give this one a miss and hopefully go to the Czech Republic in 2014.
So when you said "I know you say EVERYBODY should be able to go to a Premier League match. Well, that is not reality.Wasn't back in the good old days (there were still people who couldn't afford to go to games - just like now). " you actually meant that in that past it was "nothing like now"?
Come on Schapes. Drop the flag ? The suing culture in your country is something i find veru unflattering . Again it is all about the money. I find the ban suppressing . Easy isn`t alway better. To show a banner at a sport event with a critcal or positive text is something very different then yelling Fire! In a crowded movie theater.
I figured it was something like that. What i do not understand is why people do not argue about it. People just seem to accept it, without any questions. Really? You are not allowed to the freedom off speach about what you want ? Im not talking about indicet behavior. But if it is like i understand , then i find it to be partly suppressive
Israel is a exciting choice though. But maybe not the best timing. Seems to me there is quite a lot politics in the last award of world cups , Euro and Euro U21 the last years. Many challenging places awarded the big championships the last years.
You are right about the suing culture. It is an operational thing. Without having to screen banners - fans get in stadiums easier. Also, for those owners that are unpopular. Eliminates the possibility of them having negative banners in their facility.
Hey vifvaf - nothing to say on all the stuff I posted about OSU-Michigan? They may not be the best at capturing the atmosphere, but it's an amazing game.
They have argued about the litigious nature of America. Some people want to have it like it is in Great Britain. Loser pays. Which means if someone brings a suit and they lose - the loser has to pay court costs, attorney fees, etc. to the winner. People who don't support it say that doesn't allow disadvantaged people to bring lawsuits. In America, some law firms will take cases on a contingency. Which means they get paid if their side wins. If their side loses a case - they get paid nothing.
Probably more people could afford it back in the day. As I said earlier,some of the people who would cause problems have been priced out.
Flags have never really been a big part of American fan culture. People don't really care about them all that much, so there's no real movement to change these rules. Generally speaking, a property owner's rights to control their property overrides a customer's free speech rights.
...except that the idea that football hooligans are/were a disenfranchised underclass has long since been proven to be a myth.
I probably wouldn't be willing to routinely pay that much if I was an Arsenal fan. But, "fair" is a relative term. Arsenal doesn't seem to have any problems selling tickets.
I would say that since ticket prices have gone up in the States - it seems like there are less fights in the stands.
My old boss' boss at work, probably on a six-figure salary, used to moan that ticket prices at Arsenal were ridiculous. Fans do vote with their feet. More Reading fans went to Wigan (200 miles) than to QPR (35 miles) because QPR wanted £45 a ticket - for a stand where you can't ever see all of the nearest goal from many of the seats.
It seems like a good tradition . Seems people embrace it and are very commited to the spesial match. Good to see it was built up by working class people and that it is something everyone participate on to day. Even though as you say your self , we do not see much of the stand culture. Maybe it`s just how it is. Maybe the fans have a different role in Europe then in the US. Just like people think differently in the community other places. I see many of the same values and the passion we see here . So even if it isn`t possible (today ) you and others committed to the club can probably understand how it would feel if the commerce forces got the hold of it and excluded most of the people included today. Some say it is how the marked works and we just have to deal with it. Well that isn`t an option for many. So therefore we see the fans growing stronger and stronger across Europe every day. They are well organized , edjucated and they know what they want.