Please weigh in on if you agree with Geiger. Please only vote if you are a USSF referee, and are not a fan of either LA or Seattle. Please also state your referee grade. http://www.mlssoccer.com/video/2012/11/18/penalty-keanes-cross-meets-johansson-outstretched-arm I am grade 8, three years experience.
I'm looking for some validity/impartiality: hard to know if we are getting it since there are so many more votes than people willing to say who they are.... All the same, if we get a clear consensus, that may give the novice referee (like me) some guidance that he can use for himself later, and perhaps cool down the obstinacy in the other thread.
I tried twice, but the glitter on the badge keeps giving me glare from the camera flash. Maybe next year, I hear OSI is coming out with a new badge design that has less pizzazz.
It may or it may not. As a general rule, the higher the level of soccer, the more there is a presumption that what players do is controlled and deliberate. Things that are deliberate in the MLS or the World Cup may not be in a u12 game where pre-adolescents may naturally flail around like an octopus. You also need to beware of over generalizing from a single event. The details matter. I'd suggest that you're going to get more food for thought from reading the comments in the other thread than you are from a poll. But even there, you need to separate the mental gyrations from mutliple views in super slow mo and paused still action shots and angels dancing on the head of a pin from the in the moment, one angle, one time, what do I call. Ultimately, it is ITOOTR whether the handling was deliberate -- and all the tools we talk about ("unnatural position," "biggering," "ballto hand," etc.) are nothing more than tools in your arsenal to assist you in making that judgment. I'd humbly suggest that you've already learned everything you're going to learn from this event and are ready to move on . . .
I would say what makes this handling (which was my vote above) was the way he was flailing his arms pre cross, combined with the fact that it looks to me like it hit his right hand. Had his hands not been wind-milling, and had it simply hit his left hand, I'd be fine with a ck. But the totality of his actions makes the case for me that it was deliberate.
In my opinion it is definitely a hand ball. He made himself bigger on purpose. Just passed for a Grade 7, 1 year as a USSF Referee.
Apologies, I voted before I read the first post and saw the fan qualification. You can retract my vote from the total (although, I have held the same opinion on similar calls in games toward which I am completely neutral). Sorry about that. It might even make sense to put the qualification in the survey answers, if that's possible. I imagine that accounts for most of the discrepancy. Retired grade 7.
6. No way, he's a yard away with his arm down by his side. He thinks Keane is going to cross it down the goal line so he tries to block it with the outside of his left foot. To me it's very unlucky to have it hit your arm in this situation.
Grade 7, Handling - the defender, while not running at full speed, has both arms outstretched, and is making himself bigger. He's trying to gain an advantage by using his position and the end line to contain the attacker. Watching the play in slow-motion the appearance is not only that the arms are out, but that the reaction of the hand flexes up to deflect the ball over the end line, with the arm being positioned backwards. If the arm was down and back, and the ball deflected downward towards the ground, then I believe Geiger wouldn't have made the PK call. Contrary to what some have said, I didn't detect a 2nd touch by the opposite hand, but if that did occur, then this would give further credence to the call. Just my $.02.... Aaron
Sorry for not voting, but my response is not one of the choices. My gut feel is that although the right arm was in an unnatural position, I would not have been able to tell that the ball actually contacted it. In fact, I can't even tell from the replays. So I would like to not call this one, but I would, because everyone would be expecting me to. Handling. Grade 8 (because although I can easily pass the fitness test, I have never been able to make the scheduled times because I am also coaching).
Grade 8, 15 years exp. I voted for handling, but it's a really close call. He has made himself bigger but was also using his arm to balance. At that level of play, it's handling. In a U14 rec game that I'm calling, it's probably not.
Referee (7) and Instructor (9) in my 17th year officiating. Agree with Geiger. Johanssen's arms routinely make his body bigger while anticipating a cross. He can then portray himself as innocent while gaining a much bigger profile to block the cross. At this level, handling IMO. In youth, much less likely.
12. Oh good grief. Look at the fan at 3o second mark and his arms. This is Pro level. At this level this is what the defender looks like (to his teammates too). Arms windmilling around like he is in high school. Handling and I'm with Geiger 100%. Defend like a pro, and lets get on with the PK. He is not unlucky, he is not in control of his body.