Following my project to make all-time squads of different countries I finished my second all-time squad. After making my All-Time Peru Squad I decided to try to do the same work with Argentina. I posted the full article on my blog: Selección Histórica de Argentina This is the summary of the 25-men squad: 01 GK CARRIZO, Amadeo 14 CB PERFUMO, Roberto 19 SW PASSARELLA, Daniel 04 RB ZANETTI, Javier 03 LB MARZOLINI, Silvio 05 DM MONTI, Luis 08 AM MORENO, José Manuel 11 AM DI STÉFANO, Alfredo 10 AM MARADONA, Diego 18 FW MESSI, Lionel 09 CF BATISTUTA, Gabriel 12 GK FILLOL, Ubaldo 25 CB RUGGERI, Óscar 02 CB AYALA, Roberto 23 RB SOSA, Carlos 15 DM ROSSI, Néstor 06 DM REDONDO, Fernando 16 AM RIQUELME, Juan Román 17 AM BOCHINI, Ricardo 22 AM SASTRE, Antonio 13 AM PEDERNERA, Adolfo 20 AM SÍVORI, Omar 21 LW ORSI, Raimundo 24 FW LABRUNA, Ángel 07 CF KEMPES, Mario And these are my positional rankings: Goalkeepers 01. CARRIZO, Amadeo 02. FILLOL, Ubaldo 03. DOMÍNGUEZ, Rogelio 04. TESORIERE, Américo 05. ROMA, Antonio 06. GATTI, Hugo 07. COZZI, Julio 08. PUMPIDO, Nery 09. SANTORO, Miguel Ángel 10. GUALCO, Sebastián 11. CEJAS, Agustín 12. MARÍN, Miguel 13. GOYCOCHEA, Sergio 14. ANDRADA, Edgardo 15. MUSIMESSI, Julio Central Defenders 01. PASSARELLA, Daniel 02. PERFUMO, Roberto 03. RUGGERI, Óscar 04. AYALA, Roberto 05. RAMOS DELGADO, José 06. SALOMÓN, José 07. BIDOGLIO, Ludovico 08. SAMUEL, Walter 09. SACCHI, Federico 10. DELLACHA, Pedro 11. SÁ, Francisco 12. ALBRECHT, Rafael 13. GRIFFA, Jorge 14. PIAZZA, Osvaldo 15. SENSINI, Roberto Right-backs 01. ZANETTI, Javier 02. SOSA, Carlos 03. OLGUÍN, Jorge 04. WOLFF, Enrique 05. YÁCONO, Norberto 06. OLARTICOECHEA, Julio 07. LOMBARDO, Juan Francisco Left-backs 01. MARZOLINI, Silvio 02. SORÍN, Juan Pablo 03. TARANTINI, Alberto 04. CARRASCOSA, Jorge 05. PESCIA, Natalio 06. VAIRO, Federico 07. SUÁREZ, Pedro Defensive Midfielders 01. MONTI, Luis 02. REDONDO, Fernando 03. ROSSI, Néstor 04. RATTÍN, Antonio 05. LAZZATTI, Ernesto 06. PERUCCA, Ángel 07. CAMBIASSO, Esteban 08. MASCHERANO, Javier 09. MARANGONI, Claudio 10. GALLEGO, Américo 11. BATISTA, Sergio 12. ALMEYDA, Matías 13. MOURIÑO, Eliseo 14. ASTRADA, Leonardo 15. RAIMONDO, Miguel Ángel Central Midfielders 01. ARDILES, Osvaldo 02. VERÓN, Juan Sebastián 03. SIMEONE, Diego 04. GIUSTI, Ricardo 05. BARBAS, Juan 06. MARTINO, Gerardo 07. ZUMELZÚ, Adolfo 08. TROBBIANI, Marcelo 09. BASUALDO, José Attacking-midfielders 01. BOCHINI, Ricardo 02. RIQUELME, Juan Román 03. BRINDISI, Miguel Ángel 04. ALONSO, Norberto 05. BURRUCHAGA, Jorge Luis 06. PASTORIZA, José Omar 07. BABINGTON, Carlos 08. AIMAR, Pablo 09. ROSSI, Óscar 10. GOROSITO, Néstor 11. LÓPEZ, Juan José 12. SABELLA, Alejandro 13. ZANABRIA, Mario 14. GALLARDO, Marcelo 15. D'ALESSANDRO, Andrés Deep-lying forwards 01. MARADONA, Diego 02. DI STÉFANO, Alfredo 03. MORENO, José Manuel 04. PEDERNERA, Adolfo 05. SÍVORI, Omar 06. SASTRE, Antonio 07. MARTINO, Rinaldo 08. ONEGA, Ermindo 09. GRILLO, Ernesto 10. MASCHIO, Humberto 11. CESARINI, Renato 12. ORTEGA, Ariel 13. MÁRCICO, Alberto 14. BORGHI, Claudio 15. SCOPELLI, Alejandro Right-wingers 01. CORBATTA, Omar 02. PEUCELLE, Carlos 03. HOUSEMAN, René 04. BERTONI, Daniel 05. BOYÉ, Mario 06. BERNAO, Raúl 07. MUÑOZ, Juan Carlos 08. SCOTTA, Héctor 09. MASTRÁNGELO, Ernesto 10. VERNAZZA, Santiago Left-wingers 01. ORSI, Raimundo 02. LOUSTAU, Félix 03. GARCÍA, Enrique 04. MÁS, Óscar 05. PELEGRINA, Manuel 06. VERÓN, Juan Ramón 07. CUCCHIARONI, Ernesto 08. GUAITA, Enrique 09. BELÉN, Raúl 10. SUED, Ezra Forwards 01. MESSI, Lionel 02. LABRUNA, Ángel 03. SEOANE, Manuel 04. OHACO, Alberto 05. FERREIRA, Manuel 06. MÉNDEZ, Norberto 07. VARALLO, Francisco 08. DE LA MATA, Vicente 09. ANGELILLO, Antonio 10. CHERRO, Roberto 11. CANIGGIA, Claudio 12. ROJAS, Ángel Clemente 13. TÉVEZ, Carlos 14. LÓPEZ, Claudio 15. AYALA, Rubén Centre-forwards 01. BATISTUTA, Gabriel 02. KEMPES, Mario 03. PONTONI, René 04. FERREYRA, Bernabé 05. ARTIME, Luis 06. CRESPO, Hernán 07. SANFILIPPO, José 08. MASANTONIO, Herminio 09. BIANCHI, Carlos 10. TARASCONI, Domingo 11. SARLANGA, Jaime 12. STÁBILE, Guillermo 13. VALDANO, Jorge 14. YAZALDE, Héctor 15. ONNIS, Delio
Fillol should be the goalkeeper. Ruggeri should be there two for the facts he's main players in WC 86 and 90, Copa America 91 & 93 and confederation cup 92. Argentina won all those tournament except 90 where they still reached the final, and Ruggeri did not play the final itself because of 2 yellows.
Good work again Peru . How many of these are you going to do? Could you see a way for your all-time Peru selection to have a chance to beat this Argentina selection? I liked the formation for your Peru squad, which I guess suited the best players and was somewhat retro. It would be open to exploitation by Argentina's star AM's you've got there, although I admit I'm not familiar enough with the players you've put in the 'wing-half' like positions for Peru - they could be mainly defensive players. My latest idea for a formation is 3-3-3-1 (guess slightly similar formations have been used before - Brazil in WC'02 if you count Juninho or Kleberson as playing ahead of Gilberto Silva - I think it was more like 3-4-2-1 though really). I think for an England selection I'd be likely to go with a 4-4-2 or similar formation though, having Matthews and Finney available. Was Monti over Redondo a close call - maybe you feel Redondo would have too much work on to cover the very attacking AM's for one thing? 25 players with 2 goalies is a nice choice I think too.
Not a bad first team, but I agree with the poster above that Ruggieri should start over Perfumo, El Tigre may be less talented but his performances with the NT are beyond questioning. Redondo just ahead of Monti, and Batistuta did not do enough for the NT to merit a start. Here is my team: Fillol/Carrizo Zanetti-Ruggieri-Passarella-Marzolini Redondo-Rossi-Maradona Pedernera-DiStefano-Moreno Not sure why Cambiasso, D'Alessandro, Borghi and a few others are even on the list.
Rogelio Dominguez seems overated, imo. I think he had a short peak at late 50s and also not so impressive at NT. Only starter at CA'57, in which tournament, best GKs were Bonnard and Asca (see posts #42, 43). https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/best-south-american-players-50s-60s.1383569/page-2 Similar peak, but also a more consistency career had Hugo Gatti and Antonio Roma, imo.
Good work Peru ... However some player positions are very debatable: Kempes was no center forward, but either AM or support/second forward. He was just like Ortega Maradona was clearly an AM/playmaker (not "deeplying forward") Redondo was not a puer DM, but more like a center midfielder
Ubaldo Fillol is a very popular option for Argentina and very remembered for his spectacular style, however, Amadeo Carrizo was a superstar of his time and was a pioneer of a new type of goalkeeper to the history. Carrizo was selected not only as the best Argentine goalkeeper but as the best goalkeeper in South American history by the IFFHS in 1999. Personally, I rank Carrizo between the 8th and 12th position as the best goalkeeper ever and Fillol between the 11th and 14th. Roberto Perfumo vs. Óscar Ruggeri is another difficult decision to make. Despite Ruggeri awards, Perfumo not only had excellent performances at national level in the 1966 and 1974 World Cups but I think he had also a brighter club career being an absolute star in Racing Club and Cruzeiro. Personally, I rank Perfumo between the 29th to 36th position as the best central defender ever and Ruggeri between 32th to 36th.
Thanks mate. Honestly, I haven't thought about how many all-time squads I'll do but after Peru and Argentina I'll continue with Brazil. Well, I must say that the Peruvian all-time team I formed seems me in a high level but in a hypothetical match against this Argentina all-time team the favoritism is definitely to the albicelestes. They've players in a higher level than any Peruvian as Maradona, Di Stéfano, Moreno and Messi. Even some substitutes as Pedernera and Sívori seems me slightly better than the best Peruvian player ever, Teófilo Cubillas. Fernando Redondo was a great defensive midfielder but I think his status is raised mainly by his great technical skills in offensive and in a team with Moreno, Di Stéfano and Maradona in the midfield I believe was better cover them with their best midfielder in defensive tasks, Luis Monti. Personally, I also rank Monti over Redondo by a small margin.
Although seem redundant, because I think he reached a highest level and a better consideration in his own time. "El Portón de América" was according many narrators and historians the best South American defensive midfielder of the 40's, even over the legendary Uruguayan Obdulio Varela.
I've to clarify that these selections I'm doing aren't based only in their performances for their national team but about overall dimension of each player including their club careers. That's the reason because some starring players as Alfredo Di Stéfano or Ricardo Bochini are here despite their few appearances with the Argentina shirt. That's also the reason because I'd definitely put to Arsenio Erico in a Paraguayan all-time squad despite he never player at international level. Good team mate, but I also try to take into account the laterality of the players. Moreno was a very polyfunctional player but mainly an inside-right so I'd put him ever by the right side. Meanwhile, although Adolfo Pedernera was theoretically the centre-forward of "La Máquina", he was basically the mastermind of the midfield in that team so I wouldn't put him as a right-attacker. At that formation, I'd say he could occupy the position of Maradona or Di Stéfano as a deep-lying forward.
I'd say that Ruggeri only reached world class performance in his 1st season on La Liga. Perfumo had more world class seasons. At least 3 years (2 in Racing and 1 more: Cruzeiro/River). On the other hand, Ruggeri had more impact than Perfumo on NT, but not for a large margin.
I think those are very interesting statistics that create a pattern but I've a different point of view about Domínguez. He had a career that began at a young age as one of the pillars of Racing Club and was a starring player for Real Madrid definitely at world level. Then he still had a strong career playing for Vélez Sársfield, Nacional and Flamengo.
I agree that Dominguez must reached world class level in his RM seasons. Since in mid-50s the NT starter was an older Mussimesi, and when Dominguez return from europe the starter in NT was Roma (sometimes Carrizo). I can deduced that Dominguez can't reached the same level in other clubs apart from Real Madrid. In the case of Roma and Gatti, is better known they had a more consistent career Roma: 1 world class (1964). Other possibly seasons are 1962 and 1966. Only ranking season available (but he had 17 years career and 10 years in NT) Gatti: 3 world class (1975, 82, 86-87); 3 intl class (1969, 74, 76) Most seasons missed in a more than 20 years career https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...nkings-of-argentinean-football.1862688/page-2
There are many Argentine players with fantastic club careers who either did not play much for the NT (Bochini, Redondo, Riquelme) or played often but did not match the same level (Carrizo, Ortega, Samuel). Batistuta falls into the latter category once he reached age 26, after Copa America 95. His club career was excellent but to me not enough to put him as a starter in an all-time squad when there are Moreno, Labruna, Sivori, Kempes, Bertoni and Messi as forwards. Pedernera and Maradona would be the offensive midfielders in my lineup, with DiStefano and Moreno up front. Did Dominguez play much at Real Madrid?
Obdulio Varela wasn't a sure starter for Uruguay in the 40s (Galvalisi in early 40s and Rodolfo Pini at late 40s had many caps). Aditionally Varela had only regular skillset. Instead of Perucca who reached the best peak for a Pyramid Centerhalf in the 40s (best recognition, ideal teams nominations, etc). Perfumo: 2 world class (1969, 75); 1 intl class (1976) Other potential wc years are 1966 and 1968. The ratings are from the same source above quoted.
Thanks. Are you aware of high-profiled ideal teams where players of Perucca his era featured in? Regarding Perfumo: before 1974WC he was seen here is one of their key players and also one of the better center backs around. When Argentina missed 1970WC, a similar comment was made in relation to "guys that will not appear in Mexico".
How strong was the Argentinian league in those days? Does something like an UEFA coefficient list exists for South America? Or another method to gauge it? Also a method vis-a-vis European leagues perhaps? How good is El Grafico in their ratings?
I guess those questions are targeted at msioux and Peru, but the Argentine Primera División (remember that their only true rivals talent was splitted up among several regional championships) not being the #1 league in SA would greatly surprise me. I'm not aware of any coefficient list being used to hand out Copa Libertadores spots. http://scoreshelf.com/pmgb/en/CONMEBOL/Copa_Libertadores/1960-1969 This is quite interesting.
Yes I agree with you, certainly with regards to first paragraph. Strength vis-a-vis European teams is always a heated and thorny question but I remember several discussions where people like comme (that is: the posters who are held in particular high regard by most people) argued how historically weak the 1974 and 1978 Argentinian teams actually were (did not qualify for 1970 and 1966 edition is an heated debate to this day) and record in Intercontinental Cup is also frequent subject of debate. This is btw not a view held by me. Record in Copa Libertadores has btw a few issues but in general it is a good overview, yes.
Very interesting link A first-looked discrepancy would be U.Catolica > Colo Colo > U.de Chile in the 60s. It's widely regarded than Universidad de Chile was the better chilean team those years, the higher peak and better football. They were nicknamed El Ballet Azul, just like Millonarios.