New York Cosmos & NASL

Discussion in 'New York Cosmos' started by evan eleven, Nov 12, 2011.

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  1. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Poor Giorgio. Still sad about his passing. RIP Long John Giorgione!
     
  2. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
    after that, the Cosmos had 2 losses in the 83 playoffs and did not even make the playoffs in 84
     
  3. Smoke & Mirrors

    Jul 18, 2010
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Anyone with any perspective can and should completely agree with your point. With that same perspective I think it should also be easy to see though, that just because the teams on the field are not the same as the ones we watched back then, the brands themselves, at least some of them, still have some kind of value to offer today's American soccer.

    We're still at a point where everyone who is invovled in the game in any way needs to be doing what they can to sell the game to more people in this country. The growth we've seen over the last 15+ years has been very slow growth. There's still room for a whole lot more, I think anyway. If you're starting a pro team in NY today, all other things being equal, which "brand" is easier to sell, especially to casuals or fringe fans - The New York Cosmos, or anything else? It's immediately recoginzable. Of course the team on the field isn't going to be the likes of Pele, Chinaglia, or Beckenbauer. Anyone expecting this should be getting their head examined, not attending soccer matches. Just because I'm not sitting in my seats at Lockhart watching my boyhood idols Ray, Nene, Gerd Mueller, and JVB, doesn't mean I'm not embracing today's Strikers any less. I semi-followed Miami FC. But I felt no special connection to the team. But rebranded with the name of my team as a kid, the team that hooked me on this sport for life, for the first time in my life I became a season ticket holder for a pro sports team, and I'll continue to be as long as they are around. The brand reaches more people in this market easily.

    Bottom line for me is names like the Strikers, Rowdies, and Cosmos are really about one thing now - marketing. If you can conjure up even just a fraction of the magic those names held in their hey day, no matter how you do it, to me it's far easier than starting from scratch with an unknown name and a clean slate. At the very least I think it applies to certain markets for sure. The Cosmos, Rowdies, and Strikers were perhaps the three most recognizable brands from the original NASL. Certainly the Cosmos were THE brand. I say it hurts nothing, and gains something to use it. How much "gain" do you get out of it? Beats me. But again, certainly better to start a pro team in NY with that name then NYC FC or anything else you can think of.
     
  4. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its not a matter of being HIP or Nostalgic.

    you are right - the Cosmos of 2013 and beyond are not going to be the Cosmos of the 70s-80s. Anyone who knows the rules of the game in this country should now that. No doubt about it. The Casual fans might not realize that but they will have to learn it and when they do, it could turn them off to it.

    However, the Cosmos still hold a name in NYC - many people know them and many went to the games. Personally, I knew the cosmos but never went to the games as I was alive but too young. And 5 years ago, I would be on the side of start a new team and not reincarnate the Cosmos.

    Over the past 2 years, the one good thing the Cosmos have done is shown that the brand still holds appeal world wide. The Cosmos have sold more jerseys internationally than they did in the United states.

    Now, that does not help anything as the focus is the game in THIS country but if you are going to put another team in NYC to try and revive the market, do you really think NYCFC would be better off than a globally recognized brand?

    I think More fans are more inclined to buy tickets to the COSMOS than to NY2 enter the name.
     
    Smoke & Mirrors repped this.
  5. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    How rich or wealthy are the new Cosmos owners? Just curious.......
     
  6. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't say they didn't have value.

    My problem is with the "The Cosmos are BACK!" people and the "I finally have My Cosmos" back people. You cannot go home again. You can enjoy having a team, you can enjoy it however you like. But it's ridiculous to think anything could be even close to what it was. I know we tend to romanticize things (and the Rowdies' heyday was actually an even slightly smaller window than the Cosmos') from what we consider to be a simpler time ("the good ol' days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems"), that's human nature.

    But if it's about marketing....well, having the name back has resulted in a 2% increase in FCTB attendance year-over-year. And no really buzz. Because what happened in 1979 can't be re-created. No matter what colors you put people in. They can be Rowdies, Strikers and Cosmos. They just can't be the ones you remember. Unless you insist on living in the past.
     
  7. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is awesome if your business is international jersey sales.

    But here in the States, they wound up on the discount rack at Ross.

    And once everybody who wants one has a jersey....then what? And are they just interested in wearing their "Twice in a Lifetime" t-shirts, or are they actually interested in going to Hofstra for games? Or will they wait until they're in MLS? And when John Wolyniec is coaching them instead of The Professor...well, you see where it's going.

    If the raison d'etre of the appeal of the brand is what happened from 1975-82, and if we all pretty much agree that those conditions can't be re-created...then it's just a name. An appealing name. An historic name. A name that resonates. But a name that can't be lived up to. Maybe that's okay. I'm not buying tickets, and neither is the guy in Singapore who buys a Cosmos jersey.

    We've been having this same debate for what seems like forever. The folks who have been insistent that "I don't care for the MLS team you have provided me, I insist you provide me with another, and it must be called the Cosmos" at least still haven't had that dream dissuaded. I just don't buy into the idea that the legacy will sustain without the conditions of today, but we'll see.
     
  8. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do agree its going to be a challenge for the ownership group - whomever that will be going forward.

    At first it will be - OH YEA THE COSMOS ARE BACK but after a while fans will see its not the same and keeping them in the stadium is going to be the challenge.

    The NASL Cosmos are going to have a bigger challenge because maybe for the first few games they do well but come July, when they are hosting the Silverbacks on a hot summers night, and fans dont see Pele and gang on the pitch, they might decide to go to the Hamptons instead.
     
  9. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    And those folks you speak of are a market of 13 million people in Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island - not just the guys you see here on the message board that you have your gripe with.

    Also - you are factually incorrect. The folks of the NY2 movement didnt insist anything. Since day one of the MLS there has been talk of a team East of the rivers. Don't be mad at folks who have been holding out for a team that has been told is coming for the past 16 years. The anger should have been with MLS for telling these fans that an easier solution is coming to you.
     
  10. Jaydawgg22

    Jaydawgg22 Member

    Jun 26, 2007
    Astoria Queens NYC
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your problem has been with the borough boys for a long time, Kenn, If I remember you calling us "the worst kind of people" on twitter. You tweeted some bs about people you've never met, based on something you assumed to know about us.

    We want a team in NYC because the league has said that is the plan all along. We were founded in 2007 when Wilpon said he was interested in making NYC a reality. Thats what 3 years before the "return" of the cosmos? The cosmos are the front runners right now for MLS2NYC so naturally a group interested with making this happen would put their cards behind them. And clearly the NASL names having value isn't that crazy of an idea, The Quakes, Sounders, and Timbers have all done it. The Sounders fan base even forced the team to use the NASL/USL name through a write in vote campaign.

    Why don't we support the MLS team provided for us? Well, every Borough Boy has his or her own reasons for that. Mine is the takeover and rebranding by Red Bull Energy drink. In any major American sport that kind of thing would not be accepted by fans, if any of the MLB.NHL,NFL,or NBA teams I support had that happen I would quickly disassociate myself with that team and no longer support them. IMO if I support that takeover/rebranding I'm conceding that this sport is 2nd class in this country, and I'm not personally going to ever do that.
     
    wantmlsphilly, Metrogo and QueensNick repped this.
  11. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    Worth posting twice!
     
  12. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have a problem with those people also, but I suspect that they are very much in the minority, particularly now that Kemsley and Cantona are gone. I think the fan base for this team is going to be dominated by people who already get that it isn't going to be the same, but who are soccer fans anyway.
     
    QueensNick and Smoke & Mirrors repped this.
  13. Smoke & Mirrors

    Jul 18, 2010
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I don't think we're all that far away from agreeing with what Kenn is saying. That's the thing with him. He assumes everyone on BS is some poser "fanboy" who thinks they know everything about soccer but really doesn't, and so he "enlightens" us all (especially the anonymous ones like me LMAO) on how things really are. In the end, those of us who aren't completely misguided, more often than not can agree with the a good many of the points behind the Grand Poobah of all Things American Soccer persona/schtick/whatever he chooses to come across with. Sometimes they just get lost in the back and forth. LOL

    QueensNick and some of the other BB posters don't come across to me as foolish in their expectations based on what I've read on these forums. They're not expecting this group to try and sign Ronaldo, Messi, Forlan, and Donovan and put them on the field at Hofstra. Even if they were joining MLS next year rather than NASL, just because they're coming in with the name Cosmos doesn't mean all common sense need go out the window. Today's game and system are far different, and it's very easy to see.

    You're right Kenn, the hey day of 1979 is gone, most likely not to be seen by us in this country again. If it ever got to the point of huge international stars on every roster, it certainly isn't going to be anytime soon. As I said before, there's been growth over the last 15 years, but it's been very slow, and as it turns out, that's suited the game and the league just well. Maybe some people will buy tix to a Cosmos game next year expecting them to be like the 1982 version. If they do, they'll certainly be disappointed, and might never come back. And that's perfectly fine. But of the millions of consumers in NY, I think they'll probably be able to find a large enough fanbase to support the team. And again, all other things equal, there's certainly no harm in flying the flag of the Cosmos for your organization over any other name that no one knows or values in any way, whether you agree with that or not. Did any other D2 team get covered by every major sporting media outlet when it announced it's plan to field a team? The brand still has value, no matter how you slice it. What I'm saying is, that fact alone is enough. It doesn't need to live up to the expectations some people might have for that name. It's still better to have it than not to in NY.

    So, the Cosmos, and the BB's have a mission. It's really the same mission all pro teams in North America have right now. Get people to come to the game, provide an entertaining product and atmosphere, and hopefully they'll be interested enough to come back. If having the Cosmos name only helps that cause by 2% to use Kenn's TB number, then to me its worth it. Personally I think it's going to mean more than that, but we'll see. Every single thing helps, because the calendar indeed does not say 1980.
     
  14. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    Kenn, you keep talking about what New Yorkers expect or don't expect from the Cosmos. Who are these people who "expect a team named the Cosmos to be those Cosmos..."? Who are these people expecting to fill some "hip" or "nostalgic" void? Or are you just creating strawman people and insulting them because you have your own "void" to fill?
     
  15. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    quote="Smoke & Mirrors, post: 26117796, member: 175433"]
    QueensNick and some of the other BB posters don't come across to me as foolish in their expectations based on what I've read on these forums. They're not expecting this group to try and sign Ronaldo, Messi, Forlan, and Donovan and put them on the field at Hofstra. Even if they were joining MLS next year rather than NASL, just because they're coming in with the name Cosmos doesn't mean all common sense need go out the window. Today's game and system are far different, and it's very easy to see.
    .[/quote]
    We don't expect it, and I think we would all agree that's not something we would want. Maybe way off in a future where MLS is up there with NFL and MLB, but not anytime soon.
     
  16. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Right - we always fight on big soccer but the bigger problem is the casual fan - because if your spending your time on Big Soccer - you follow the game in this country and get it.
     
  17. nedigital

    nedigital Member

    Jun 25, 2003
    Mass
    Not relevant to any of the above posts, but I was just on the street in Boston and guy was running down the sidewalk with a Cosmos shirt/jersey, suddenly changed his mind and turned the other way and walked in that direction, looking very confused. I wanted to ask him if it was a Cosmos 2.0 metaphor of some kind.
     
  18. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    LOL
     
  19. Chowda

    Chowda Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I know that person. He was trying to find a Chick-fil-a.
     
  20. C'mon. COSMOS!

    Mar 22, 2011
    Long Island, NY
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was lucky enough, albeit on just one occasion, to see the Cosmos at Giants Stadium in their heyday. It changed my life. It made me the passionate fan that I am today. And to see them come back - sure, I'm waxing nostalgic, but I know that it won't be 77,000 packing in for Pelè and Giorgio...and to assume that that is what I think insults me and makes the person thinking that (like Kenn) look utterly foolish. I know what we're getting, I know what to expect, and I don't care...I'll be there in my colors, sitting in my season seats at Hofstra (for now) cheering on the boys.

    And Smoke & Mirrors, I think you've nailed every point 100%, and if you ever fly up to NY for a Cosmos/Strikers match, beers on me all night. Just my penchant for hanging with smart people with a good head on their shoulders who can hold intelligent conversation. Good on ya, buddy.
     
    Smoke & Mirrors repped this.
  21. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    The thing is with the revival of all these NASL logos or team names, MLS is in fact trying to recapture something from the NASL heyday otherwise why name them after these teams from that era? Obviously someone somewhere is trying to bring back some magic from those days.:)
    [​IMG]

    One thing the Cosmos should bring back though from those days are those cheerleaders! ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd much rather watch a Cosmos team with 11 winners than a Cosmos team with one or two superstars. And I know quite a lot about the history of the team and was a season ticket holder before I moved away from NY in the middle of the 1976 season.

    I remember what that team looked like in the second half of the 1975 season, with Pele and 10 guys named Joe.
     
  23. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Joey Fink. He was a pretty good goal scoring forward. At least as far as American born players were concerned during that time.
     
  24. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    I think you can replicate Cosmos 1977 (the true breakthrough year) but it would have to be done as follows:

    - Get Beckham to exercise his option to purchase part-ownership in a franchise. Have the current Cosmos owners join him (with name) + others in relaunched Cosmos franchise
    - Join MLS in 2014 (not NASL in 2013). Make big announcement this December/January, and start selling season tickets for 2014
    - Beckham is player/owner during 2014, his last season (a parallel to Pele's last season).
    - Sign Kaka for 2014 (hmmm....another great Brazilian player with a 4 letter name- like Pele!)
    - Have Victoria Beckham design the uniforms (like the famous designer back in 1970s)
    - Have Beckham recreate the magic with high-profile appearances around New York, on NYC television....hobnobbing with Jay-Z and other celebs
    - Create massive celebrity hangout at 2014 Cosmos games, like at 1977 lockerroom for Cosmos
    Steve Nash, top European players on holiday, government officials, etc
    - Play in Red Bull arena for 2014, 2015, 2016- while Flushing stadium gets built. Play a few games each year in Yankee stadium and Citifield. Home opener should be Yankee Stadium.
    - Ancillary effect will actually help Red Bulls, since it will get more people used to going to Red Bull arena from 2014-2016 and some of those folks will stay with Red Bull after 2016.
    - Red Bulls get dollars from Cosmos rental of stadium- good for Red Bulls
    - Derbies would be spectacular and raucous
    - By then, 4 DPs will be allowed, and the Cosmos will have a spectacular lineup. The tete-a-tete
    for attention between Red Bulls and Cosmos will be fantastic in summer 2014 and beyond...each constantly trying to trump each other.
    - MLS tv deal up in 2014. Beckham led Cosmos can lead to unprecedented bump in tv deal since the carrot (not the reality) of the New York market busting upwards will lead to a big deal.
    - Beckham led Cosmos will lead to boffo sponsorship, local tv deal, jersey sales, tickets. Ironically, Red Bulls will be helped too...since they will be able to raise revenue and prices for sponsorships with the higher exposure
    - Beckham's presence will bring in some well-heeled limited partners
    - Boxes at Red Bull arena will sell at astronomical prices for 2014-2016
    - Pele, Beckenbauer will be brought back as true ambassadors and Beckham's magic will help land major deals in every segment. Just like when Cosmos signed BECKENbauer in 1977,
    BECKHAM will make the difference.

    With a boy named Brooklyn, this all was meant to be. Beckham needs to keep doing spectacular things to keep his brand relevant and launching Cosmos in a big way in 2014 as investor/owner will be the best way for him to move onto next phase in his career, and fully leverage his brand. If he waits too long after retirement, he risks becoming irrelevant. Beckham could still live in LA most the year (as his famiily) and family to join him summers in New York.

    How about Beckham-Kaka-Fernando Torres and Ribery for Cosmos and Henry- Cahill- and some young superstar for Red Bulls in 2014 and Cosmos (and Red Bulls) recreate the magic from 1977 all over again....
     
  25. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are right about Fink. He was good, as were Werner Roth, Juan Masnik, Mark Liveric and a few others. But the Cosmos were below .500 that year in games in which Pele didn't play, Pele demanded that they add some reinforcements (Ramon Mifflin and Nelsi Morais, I think) for their postseason tour, and of the 28 players who played for the Cosmos in the 1975 NASL season, 22 were gone by the start of the 1976 season. That's a lot of turnover.
     

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