I said before that I was trying to create a "rangliste" for the whole of Europe from some historical seasons starting with 1980-1. https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/the-best-players-of-the-season-1980-1.1886897/ I've listed below a draft of the best players by position for Europe for 1981-2, and would like some feedback and suggestions on players. Who've I missed out, who shouldn't be included? If any of you want to have a stab at assigning the three ratings (world class, international class and national class) to the players then please feel free to. The players are in no particular order. Goalkeepers Bernd Franke Jean-Luc Ettori Dino Zoff Peter Shilton Jozef Mlarnyczek Harald Schumacher Giovanni Galli Luis Arconada Full-backs Manfred Kaltz Manuel Amoros Genaro Celayeta Kenny Swain Antonio Cabrini Kenny Sansom Hans-Peter Briegel Santiago Urquiaga Eric Gerets Nenad Stoijkovic Claudio Gentile Centre-backs Holger Hieronymus Gaetano Scirea Orlando Pereira Alecsanco Ruud Krol Alan Hansen Walter Meeuws Karl-Heinz Forster Sergio Brio Wladyslaw Zmuda Jan Fiala (CB or FB?) David O’Leary Glenn Hysen Humberto Coelho Miguel Tendillo Bruno Pezzey Alexandr Chivadze Steve Perryman Central midfielders Paulo Roberto Falcao Bryan Robson Graeme Souness Paul Breitner Felix Magath Alain Giresse Jean-Francois Larios Glenn Stromberg Ricardo Gallego Lothar Matthaus Jesus Zamora Rene Vandereycken Miguel Alonso Uli Stielike Soren Lerby Attacking midfielders Liam Brady Michel Platini Glenn Hoddle Manfred Burgsmuller Dieter Hoeness Zbigniew Boniek Ruud Gullit Radoslav Zdravkov Vladimir Petrovic Juan Lozano Wingers Franco Causio Pierre Littbarski Bruno Conti Steve Coppell Bruno Bellone Roberto Lopez Ufarte Remaz Shengelia Daniel Bertoni Ludo Coeck Tony Morley Jesper Olsen Forwards Kevin Keegan Kenny Dalglish Karl-Heinz Rummenigge Oleg Blokhin Alan Simonssen Walter Schachner Strikers Ian Rush Quini Roberto Pruzzo Torbjorn Nilsson Horst Hrubesch Delio Onnis Rui Jordao Jacques Pereira Andrej Szarmach Wim Kieft Kees Kist
I don't know whether Gullit should be categorized as attacking midfielder for Haarlem. That is a difficult one. I also believe, but I acknowledge that I'm biased, that Cruijff deserves one star, at the least. Before his comeback was Ajax third in the table with 20 points (of 30), 9 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses, 51 goals for, 25 against. They were five points behind leader PSV. After comeback they had, in the games where he featured, 29 points (of 30), 14 wins, 1 draws, 0 losses, 59 goals, 14 against. They won the league with five points ahead of PSV - helped by a 3:0 win over them, and a 3:2 win over direct competitors AZ67 (15/05/1982) which was their championship-winning game. He had the assist to the winning goal of Vanenburg, when the scoreline was 2:2. Did not play in: 24/04/1982 - Go Ahead Eagles - Ajax 1:2 02/05/1982 - Ajax - Utrecht 1:0 09/05/1982 - Roda JC - Ajax 1:1 22/05/1982 - Haarlem - Ajax 1:3
This was the podium for the "footballer of the year" award in the Netherlands. 1. Martin Haar (Haarlem) 2. Jesper Olsen (Ajax) 3. Jan Peters (AZ67) Non-ranked nominated players were, in no particular order: Halvar Thoresen (PSV), Hans van Breukelen (Utrecht), Dick Schoenaker (Ajax), Jan Poortvliet (PSV), Manuel Sanchez-Torres (Twente), Ronald Koeman (FC Groningen), Soren Lerby (Ajax). Edward Metgod (Haarlem) was the 11th guy who just fell out. Cruijff played not enough games to be eligible for the award. Gullit played 31 games but was punished for the fact that he had also a few weak games - according to the journalists. Rankings for Belgium are posted in a separate thread.
You should move Dieter Hoeness to the strikers' category (he was Uli Hoeness' younger brother you might have confused them subconsciously as Uli Hoeness was a attacking midfielder).
I think I was also confusing him with Dieter Muller and then in turn with Hansi Muller. Overall, a very confused picture. Thanks for the tip.
Picking up on Puck's points re: Gullit and Cruyff: I remember Gullit's 'mentor' at Haarlem discussing his time there on Gullit's Football's Greatest episode, and I think he referred to him playing as sweeper - if not then I've picked up that info elsewhere. I seem to recall he might've played in more than one position and am unsure regarding 81/82 (his last season at the Club). Puck has already added great info and I wouldn't want him to be taking vast amounts of time searching but I don't know whether he might be able to provide sources for match reports etc like he's done for Cruyff's matches (Haarlem may be more difficult with scarce/limited info perhaps)? On Cruyff, I agree based on what I know/have seen that he still had the quality but just as he didn't play enough games to be considered as Player of the Year in Holland, comme I guess you may prefer more games to be completed for included players? I notice he came 8th with 3% of the vote in World Soccer's Player of the Year voting for 1982 (checked on rsssf just now, I remember comme that you brought that award and it's history to people's attention before actually). I don't think that award is a perfect measure, but as it is a straight vote for 1st place in this case it does hint at/confirm some stand-out form from Cruyff. Again highlights don't give a full impression, but some of his compilations do include some outstanding play from that period at Ajax (don't know from which season other than the goal where he dribbles through and chips the keeper on his 'second debut' that I've seen discussed by Jordi Cruyff). The record posted by Puck is a good indicator of his effect on Ajax's form and results I think too. There is the 1982/83 season that could be considered as well as the following one at Feyenoord (I'm sure Puck will have more to contribute; again I don't know whether he can access many match reports from that period - apologies if already on the Cruyff thread - there is a lot of info on there!). I was thinking of a young Michael Laudrup but again 82/83 might seem more appropriate. In terms of other players, though it's hard to go back and pick out a specific season, I wonder about Tigana (again as I think I mentioned him for 80/81 too) and maybe Rocheteau. I see a few Tottenham players there comme, but perhaps Steve Archibald has a chance too for a 1-star mention?
Actually, as I'm sure you know, Archibald's goal return was much lower in 81/82 than the previous season it seems so on that basis I guess he shouldn't be included.
I think the above list missed the "defensive midfielders category". For that category is Rijkaard a good inclusion. He was in fact part of the top 10 but did not play enough games, 27 games. Because 30 games (IIRC, can also be 28 or 29) was the treshold he just fell out. Another known name where I thought about was Gerald Vanenburg but he was not consistent enough - in above list most names are defensive minded people anyway. Unfortunately I do not know the ranking of places 3-10 (wikipedia mentions that Rijkaard was on 4th place but I cannot check that) but the article mentions the various nominees and also candidates like Gullit, Vanenburg, Rijkaard, Cruijff and a few others and explain why they miss out.
Without wanting to have a French obsession or to suggest that certain players are included in multiple adjoining seasons without specific reasons, I also feel that Bossis and Battiston may be worthy (perhaps there are reasons why this season was not their best though).
I did yesterday but I cannot give the call. Line-ups note him as sweeper, as mid-fielder (in a three-men midfield) and as forward (the famous comeback game of Cruijff was against Haarlem and Gullit played as center-forward on that occasion). Some reports say that when he played as midfielder he was "supportive to his striker" while in some other matches he is described as "shield in front of his defense". It is a difficult call and on two occasions I saw he also played as second center-back next to Martin Haar (who was certainly the libero/sweeper if he played in defense). Anyhow, he had according to the journalists a few weak games in the season but he made such an impression that Feyenoord signed him. Gullit had his doubts but the board of Haarlem themselves said "you're too good for us" and stimulated him to leave.
Champion in that year was AS Monaco. If I'm correct the creative star players were Ralf Edstrom, Umberto Barberis (was voted 'foreign player of the year') and Bruno Bellone. Some of that side seems to deserve an inclusion esp. because they edged out St. Etienne.
That was my thought too, and likewise for Bossis, Rocheteau and Tigana. It's irrelevant to comme's criteria but does at least confirm their capabilities at the time. I also watched the France v Holland game from '81 as you know where Rocheteau provides a very good assist (and was clearly a first choice player for France). Rocheteau seems to have had a limited season with PSG (just over 20 apps, scoring about 1 in 2 games) and I don't know the details of his form though.
I also miss the DM category. BTW, i think Magath, Stromberg and Zamora could be suited better in AM list. I thought that Brady was a CM. I'm not so sure. I also agree that D.Muller was a striker.
In World Soccer's preview of the USSR squad they spoke about Chivadze and others being "strong, cool and reliable" then said: "Unfortunately the latter adjective cannot be applied to keeper Renat Dasaev. There are doubts about his consistency even though he has been a regular keeper for three years. All Soviet keepers must withstand comparisons with the legendary Yashin, and it is not surprising that none has stood up to the comparison. Dasaev took a lot of stick after letting in four goals when Spartak played West Germany's Kaiserslautern in the UEFA Cup." Not a definite steer that he was playing badly, but that was what put me off.
In relation to leaving out a specific DM category I did it, because I just wasn't sure it was completely right. Very few teams were playing with designated DMs and many of the best were effectively two way CMs.
I didn't see anything which pointed me towards picking them with the exception of the fact that both were great players over the course of their careers. Pretty much everyone picked in the list had something in particular to make me include them (either a high rating by kicker etc, a nice write up from World Soccer, an award).
IMO most of them (Neeskens, Van Hanegem, Bremner etc) were two way players rather than a Makelele or Gattuso type.
I was looking for the Madrid-Spartak game of 1981 too because Dasaev made (according to you) a mistake in that game too but I could not find it. Did you see the goals and mistake of that game?