Pre-match: Real Salt Lake - San Jose Earthquakes (Saturday, 6/23) pregame thread

good line up, i think corrales could do well at CDM, would like to see moreno over dawkins in the middle put pretty much spot on for my tastes.

 

+1 on this.

when baca went off on wednesday our shape got immediately better. dawkins does not want to play wing, he always always always goes in and tries to stay there which is fine if he's playing CAM or recessed forward but not if he's supposed to be playing left mid. another reason why jd needs to sign some more speedy wingers during the transfer period as we lack depth there and we are 1-2 injuries away from having no subs in these positions.

it's reported that joao plata is going on loan back to ecuador, if tfc doesn't want him should jump at trying to get him!

 

The USMNT does the same thing on the left side e.g., LM with Torres .. so it doesn't have to be viewed with a negative connotation. just saying ..

 

aaaah....i think you used a bad example in jose torres

torres didn't look too great at left mid or left back for that matter and the games results show it. putting a CAM on the wing yields mixed results, CAM's need to be able to spin and pass whereas a winger needs to go north south. a CAM on the wing is a fish out of water for the USMNT and for the quakes too.

case in point putting our players who have CAM skills (dawkins, baca, khari and ampai) on the wing has not worked and if anything they have played there just as a stop gap due to injuriy or lack of personell (last year). now that we have real wingers in chavez, shea and garza it's hard to watch a CAM on the wing.

just saying...

 

Maybe the answer might be just to say dammit, we're going to play a 3-5-2 (which is kind of what they wind up playing anyway when Corrales is "left back"). So something like:

---------Wondo------Lenhart
----------------Dawkins---------
Salinas----Baca/Khari/Tressor----Chavez
---------------Cronin/Ring------------------
-----Morrow------Muma-----------Beita

That would also kind of end the Morrow LB / CB debate because he would be kind of both .

Quakes would give up more goals in this configuration but they'd score a lot too. I think on balance it might be a net positive. And with Dawkins in an a-mid position, Baca/Khari/Tressor could play back a bit more and provide more defensive cover, which would also allow Cronin/Ring to focus on a more defensive role. So while the back line is thinner the configuration provides a little more defensive cover in the midfield.

 

I'm actually not sure that they would give up more goals as Chavez and Salinas do a pretty good job of defending, and even more importantly, winning the ball back in the midfield so the defenders don't have to defend. Dawkins doesn't do that quite as much. I think a 3-5-2 is worth trying out to start a game with. Like you said, towards the end of games they usually move into that formation more or less anyway. And they sure as heck aren't stopping goals (especially early) with a 4-4-2.

 

Do not want Plata. The Quakes have enough similar players already. Depth at central defense would be a higher priority, IMO.

 

plata is a younger chavez clone, what's not to want/like and yeah we also need another centerback.

 

Not sure if you missed by point completely ..

Torres was given the freedom to move inside since the LB was providing the width to the attack.
My point being .. CM have been put on the wings but they play centrally in the attack.
Dempsey & Donovan can be used the same way on the wings since the USMNT doesn't have a C Ronaldo, Nani type in the player pool.

 

I don't really care what the line up is or what we do with this game provided whoever is playing works hard to execute the game plan. It's a low priority to me compared to the USOC & LAG games we have coming up. In part that's because it's on the road and we already got all 3 pts in Colorado. But mostly it's because RSL is going to determine the outcome of this game. If they come out too emotional, then they'll either push too hard and leave gaps in the back for us to attack or they'll get in card trouble. If they come out with determination but don't make stupid mistakes then it'll be a good game and we'll have our chances and they'll have theirs and if we lose, it's one where we can easily afford to. I pick a lineup based on what leaves us in the best position for the next two games.
We have a good chance to make the final of the USOC and we should seize it because it gets us CCL and the allocation money that comes with it.

 

I think you're missing the reason why Torres was moved to LM is that he was even worse at CAM at the international level. He plays in the Mexican league where all the games are at elevation so none of the teams play high pressure. He's used to only having to deal with 1 guy defending him, not the waves of defenders you see in high pressure defensive schemes at the international level.

Same thing with Dawkins... he's better at LM in my opinion b/c it gives him time and space to receive the ball, turn and face, and start to run at players. Plus Baca has a better engine to get up and down the field in CM and he defends better.

 

I think this comes back to a point that was made by several people in preseason (pertaining to Moreno more than Dawkins, but it still fits). Yallop's style of play historically has mostly featured 2 central midfielder who are both two-way players, rather than a diamond formation where the "attacking" central midfielder doesn't have to play as much defense. Dawkins fits better on the wing in that kind of formation, as he doesn't have the engine to play enough defense. But if the team plays more of a diamond formation where the outside mids have more defensive resonsibility and the attacking central mid can be more of a playmaker, then that would seem to fit Dawkins in the middle more.

This year Yallop has mixed it up more and played Moreno and Dawkins together on the field, sacrificing defense to get offense. But he still seems to do that mostly later in games rather than as a starting lineup. I would like to see a game where the Quakes go with a front 6 of Wondo, Lenhart, Salinas, Dawkins, Cronin/Ring, and Chavez to see how it would work. Both Salinas and Chavez work hard enough on defense that it seems that having Dawkins in the middle would work ok, but it's hard to tell.

 

On the game tomorrow, just saw on the MLS site that Olave is out for RSL (calf strain), so the Quakes will have a weakened RSL defense to go against. Schuler is out injured as well, so they are going to move Wingert to the middle and play someone else on the outside. Not having either Olave or Schuler really makes the RSL defense much slower and susceptible to the Quakes speed. Hopefully Chavez (and Salinas if he plays) can take advantage of it.

 

I think the problem is we are playing Dawkins on the wrong wing, if he pinches in with Beta, then that opens up space for Beta. It works with Corrales to a certain extent, but Morrow's final ball isnt usually good enough to make the pinched in wing worth while.

That said, against RSL we want to play very narrow. That basically turns the midfield into a no go area, and it comes down to who uses the wide areas better. If we have Corrales and Beta on the outside, we just have much better attacking options on the flank. All RSL has is Espindola popping out from side to side. So for this I would go:

.................Lenhart - Wondo
.................Dawkins -Chavez
.................... Baca - Cronin
Corrales - Morrow - Bernardez - Beta

 

You play your best players at their best positions.
Who is our best CAM? Dawkins. So play him there. It's like Frank playing Wondo at RM. It's a waste of their talent and their strengths.
I want Dawkins right behind Lenhart and Wondo feeding them the ball and breaking down defenses. Baca doesn't do this kind of stuff. He simply doesn't. Put Baca at LM if Salinas can't go 90 yet. The midfield of Baca and Cronin has been mediocre at best, terrible at worst (last game I would argue was a low spot). Baca is the reason there was a giant hole in the midfield. He was playing back far too much, disconnected from the offense. Put Baca in if you want to play some possession or slow the game down or pester opposing players, but not as a starting CM over Dawkins. I want to score goals first and foremost, and Dawkins is the best option in that spot to do just that.

 

Suspicion is that newly signed Kenny Mansally (yes, the ex-M/F for the Revs) will start as outside back when Wingert goes centrally. Apparently he plays defense for the Gambian NT, and that's what he was signed for in Salt Lake. Seems awfully chancy to face SJE in particular without both Schuler and Olave; as noted above, speed becomes a huge issue without Olave.

I really wonder how much the pending USOC match impacts your lineup.

 

I'm just glad that cheater Olave isn't playing.



I'm hoping Lenny draws another red on RSL and scores a hat trick. Loved the whining last time.