And this is precisely why I'm mildly concerned that this setup is too conservative. No matter how I reshuffle the deck in this front 6, I'm seeing only 3 attacking players. Calling Torres an attacking mid isn't right. He's another holding/possession mid -- Reyna-lite. Now, I loved Reyna, but a very vocal minority of fans hated him for bogging down the US attack. Klinsi appears to be going cautious. Hold possession, bore everyone to death, and hope one of the 3 attackers scores at some point and we win 1-0. Granted, finally getting both Dempsey and Donovan on the field at the same time will provide Jozy with better help than in any previous Klinsi match. It will help some. But it's still inherantly cautious. Maybe that will turn out to be the best way for the US to play, given the player pool. But I have concerns, and I don't think that's what many fans are dreaming about. I'll need to be convinced by the actual performances when results really matter.
Yep. That's how I see it as well. The problem is Torres isn't an attacking AM. He's going to drop deep and try to hold and distribute leaving only 3 attackers as Mr. Martin said. It's not enough. So Bradley is going to be compelled to (and as he's want to do) get drawn forward. Then he's not able to be the #6 we want. I don't think anyone is comfortable with having Torres fill a more defensive role, so JK solves it by naming the "DM" above Beckerman, because he the safest choice to cover the backline. That's my fear. Edit: Mr. Martin beat me to it, again.
Another upside to Torres is that he's calm under pressure. In the past our mids would just boot the ball up the pitch whenever they where crowded, Torres seems to not get too bothered when there's a defender crowding him.
Torres would be 1 of the 2 CMs in that "traditional" 4-3-3, likely the #8. He played that role v Mexico last 25 minutes and started in that role v CR USMNT 4-3-3 v Costa Rica ---Torres8---Donovan10 -----------Edu6--------
Against a team like Scotland I would expect us to be more attack minded and would like to see Klinsmann utilize the diamond in order to allow us to throw a lot of numbers forward. In a game vs teams like Brazil I think this will probably mean Torres will play at the top of the Triangle in the 4-3-3 if he has a good display vs Scotland. This alignment protects him by having Jones and Bradley as cover defensively, and also allows us to have players on the field that can keep the ball better if they are able to keep their cool. It gives us a better threat on the counter as well. Let's hope Torres plays well because he can be a player that can give us a legitimate shot to challenge the elite teams on a frequent basis.
You don't have to play 2 DMs you could play 1DM(#6) and 1 CM(#8). The CM can be box to box but whose primary function is still defensive (ball pressure and ball winning) higher up the field.
A linking mid like Torres wouldn't be played that far up the field. He's a deeper lying player who would play behind the attacking mids.
linking to me is a player that makes himself available to continue the flow of the game, this could be receiving the ball from the fullbacks and connecting with either other mids or forwards. Now, linking not necessarely means that his next pass will lead to a goal opportunity. Torres is a good link with CONCACAF foes, most of his passes are to continue the flow of the game, very few are to create a first touch goal opportunity. Is his linking ability out-weighs his defensive liabilities?...against CONCACAF is good enough, for European foes his shortcommings are more exposed.
Looking forward to seeing Torres against Scotland. I predict something like this: -------------Boyd------------- Gomez---------------Donovan ---------Jones-Torres--------- ------------Bradley------------ Johnson-Boca-Onyewu-Dolo ------------Howard------------ With Dempsey taking Gomez's spot if he's available.
I think Torres has at times shown the potential to play a role similar to what Reyna used to bring to the team in terms of keeping the team shape and setting the tempo. And, it sounds like that is quite possibly what Klinsmann has in mind. Of course, if he does this effectively, this will make him similarly polarizing as Reyna was. Seems these passing midfielders that are not direct attackers are kind of a love 'em or hate 'em sort of player around here.
I think too many people put too much emphasis on our scoring (3 goals) of the Slovania game, I worried about the midfield formation that caused us to cough up 2 goals. If Buddle didn't play like his old self, that game would have been a different story.
It should not be just 3 attackers because the strong (ball) side FB should always be involved in any attack and the #8 will also be available. Torres' can play the #8 against CONCACAF teams. He did a great job v CR. He is not appropriate against a team with a strong physical midfield even as a #10 unless he has a strong ball winning #8 behind him, see the Belgium game.
The midfield was too soft with both Beckerman and Bradley in there and then Dempsey at the point. The porousness was more a function of the personnel than the formation imo.
This isn't surprising news. Jurgen loves Torres' style of play. That became evident so quickly into Jurgen's tenure.
if i remember analysis of that pairing, the biggest issue is that bradley went forward too much, forcing torres into the back of our side, instead of bradley playing in the back of midfield, and going forward on occasion.
I'm thinking JK means to slot Torres into the "Dempsey position" behind the single striker. His job will be to make himself available to passes coming out of the midfield and either link up or turn and connect to the single striker. This would certainly be a new position for him. He has a great skillset in terms of touch and vision. His position higher up and the dramatic movement that this position requires will free him up from the physical stuff that happens deeper in the midfield. I am excited about watching him. I am looking forward to the match. My seats are in section 209.
Whenever there is mention of playing a straight 4-3-3 like you have shown I know there there are people whispering to JK, "remember the U23s" . I think you are more likely to see the more defensively sound 4-2-3-1 version with 2 defensive focused CM and 1 AM in the center ----------Torres---------- -----Jones--Bradley-----
I agree that Torres isn't a #10 type of player at all. He's never really played that position consistently. For Pachuca he's always been one of two CMs, generally the one that sits back as a deep lying play maker. In the Mexican league, Torres is a #6, but he won't cut it there internationally. I've said it before, but he's pretty much a poor man's Xavi. If Klinsmann goes with Torres, I fully expect him to go with a Barca style 4-3-3. It's clear from various videos and interviews that Barca is the team that our NT "idolizing" if you will. I'm expecting Jones to be our Box to Box mid, Torres as our play maker, and Bradley as our DM in the 4-3-3.
And in his other ear there are people whispering "remember all that Barca footage we've been watching?" Torres doesn't like to get forward much... so we would be left with 3 attackers. I expect one of Bradley or Jones to stay behind Torres as a #6, with the other one playing mostly square or in front of him as a box to box middie.
And he takes set pieces with his left, which is an option we haven't had regularly since the days of Beasley and Eddie Lewis. That really comes in handy sometimes. Honestly, my view has been for a while and continues to be that Torres is a useful player, but is probably not an every match first choice player. I see him as a role player who is very important in some matches (especially where we expect to dominate possession against a team that's going to back off and pack it in), and more of a luxury when playing a fast-and-physical opponent that's going to press hard through the middle most often. In other words, I'd probably expect him to start against Antigua. I might expect to start him or use him against Guatemala. I think I'd rather go with Mike and JJ against Jamaica. Especially since that tandem beat them well in the GC (when neither were in particularly good form, even, and they're both playing much better now). I hope he starts at least one if not two of the friendlies. I also hope that Klinsi rotates his guys through the friendlies so they're not all spent by the time we go down to Mateo Flores in Guatemala.
Lets not forget that game was much closer than the score and if Jamaica had not blown a couple of early chances (start) at 45 secs....
Since we have only played a straight 433 once, v CR over 7 matches ago, he is not listening to the devils on his other shoulder.
I disagree. Apart from a couple of early blown chances, we were owning them. It's the only match of the GC that I thought we played well, particularly in midfield.
We agree to disagree. If they score that first goal where they had 2 point blank shots which came from a poor turnover from the midfield and even worse defending it could have been a very different ball game.