Review: Dutch players at home and abroad worthy to be tracked in connection with the Dutch NT - Part 3

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, May 7, 2012.

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  1. he so scrumptiouz

    Jun 1, 2006
    amsterdam
    Van Wolfswinkel scored a hattrick today against Braga. Let me say it again, he scored a hattrick against last years EL finalists Braga!
     
    vagegast repped this.
  2. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    [​IMG]

    De Jong has the second highest pass completion rate in the EPL this year with 92.1%. It's better than for example Busquets from Barca who has 91,5%.

    Actually from the top 5 leagues in the world:

    [​IMG]

    Nigel de Jong is at number 4 in terms off pass completion.
     
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  3. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I don't really watch De Jong much, but I actually never found much wrong with his passing when I'd seen him play for the national team. I have the Euro 08 games vs Russia and France taped, and de Jong was actually one of the better players. His midfield partner was Engelaar, who screwed up everything that came to him. When I watch those games I often think "wait, isn't his passing supposed to be bad? has he gotten worse, cause there was nothing wrong with it back in '08. Glad to see that myth busted.

    Also, what I find almost as interesting as NdJ being #4 in pass percentage is who's at #20...

    Also, Guardiola post-match on Afellay:
    “He played very well. He participated, he had a chance to score and he didn’t lose any balls. With Alves’ red card, I preferred to sub him out to avoid fatigue. Anyway, it’s good news for the Dutch national team and for the future,”
    It's important that when you watch him play, you don't compare him too much to his teammates. It's better to look at his performance on its own and compare it to the standards of other teams, and other Dutch players
     
  4. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I don't mind de Jong having a place in the NT. Everytime I see him on the field for Man City he does a good job. Mancini just doesn't prefer him to the 1000 other midfielders they have under contract. At least he still is quick and sure on defense (though as we all know a little reckless); he's not as cynical as van Bommel and could be the starter in a single holding mid 4-3-3
     
  5. he so scrumptiouz

    Jun 1, 2006
    amsterdam
    Heitinga was awarded the best Toffees player of the season by their fans and has crowned it off by scoring the 3rd goal today. VDV has to rely now on another ex teammate in Robben to qualify for the CL with his Spurs because if Chelsea win it, they are the ones to be let in instead.

    Elsewhere, Vorm had another sexy display against Liverpool and congrats to NDJ for winning the Prem! :thumbsup:



    2 injury time goals to seal the Championship? What.A.Game!
     
  6. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Did anybody see Krul play? Dude's an incredible shot stopper.

    That being said, Nigel de Jong will start and deservedly so.
     
  7. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    Vorm was great too.
     
  8. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yeah, do we favor anybody as 2nd guy? Vorm or Krul?
     
  9. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kY7sVkeuOd4#t=253s

    Stek looked bad with this ball against England. In the WC final he also made a mistake with a ball closer to his body. Vorm or Krul would have had that ball as they have less problem with those kind (but experience problems in other areas).

    Krul, Vorm and Hart are the best keepers in the EPL. Vorm does not distribute the ball fast enough (he does distribute the ball precise enough). I like keepers that bring the ball fast in again. One reason why I like Casillas. Stek does this also to some extend. For penalty's I would take Vorm. Against Brasil Krul saved us from a beating. He was huge in that game. Stek was also great against Brasil at the WC. I think I would go for Krul as nr 2. Vorm nr 3.

    But designating the keepers 1, 2 and 3 does not do them justice. All 3 have things going for them and they are all 3 more or less as good as each other after this year (where Vorm and Krul have really developed).
     
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  10. It can get funny when the Orange team meets Bayern end of this month. Bayern defenders cannot kick the hell out of Robben, so I would say all balls on Robben and wack Bayern with 10 goals:p

    as a 65th bithday gift to Cruyff
     
  11. curbo

    curbo Member

    Apr 14, 2012
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    While I think Stekelenburg is very overrated in the dutch media, he probably is still the 'safer' pick untill especially Krul and/or Vorm continue their excellence for atleast another year at that level.
    I say that with some pain in my hart because of how overrated Stekelenbug is in my opinion :<
     
  12. feyenoord!!

    feyenoord!! Member

    Jun 1, 2004
    USA
    To be Dutch is to complain and bitch about everything. Dutch are an opinionated nation. I know I am right!

    This team as a unit work together very well, the team is bigger than the individual player so if nothing is broken stay with what you have. After the Euro's start bringing in the younger guys. Let the current team finish their journey together.

    Having said that do we have another, younger Van Bommel?
     
  13. Rebaño_Sagrado

    Rebaño_Sagrado Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Home
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Being Dutch sounds alot like being Mexican.
     
  14. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/voetbal/az/12132313/__Adam_Maher_wil_hogerop__.html

    "Ik heb al heel veel duels in AZ 1 gespeeld en ben sterker geworden. Ik zou een stap hoger kunnen en willen.”

    Quote of Adam Maher.

    Translation:
    I have played a lot of games in AZ 1 and I have become stronger. I could handle a step up and I would like to move a step up.

    He doesn't say what the clubs are, but he says clubs from all major competitions have knocked on the door and between those, there are clubs he would like to move to. Furthermore he says that he thinks about his next move in terms of it being smart as he does want to get playing time. "If there is only one other player for my position, I can compete. My advantage is that I can play on all positions in midfield."


    Oke well, at least he is thinking strategic about his next move. I think he will sit with his dad at the kitchen table and analyze the teams and his direct competition for spot(s). Of course I am going to say he wants to move to fast if he is going abroad. He has played a lot of games this year and next year he will experience his fall back. If he moves for next season, that fall back will be associated with his ability by the new country, club and fans. They will have a harder time to understand this is part of his developing process and his great first year in Eredivisie. Even VDV had a fall back at Ajax, before moving to HSV and became one of the best players in the Bundesliga. On top of that, I don't think he has outgrown Eredivisie. Even at Young Orange he can't really make the difference in the games I saw, though the last game he was nice.

    He is right about 1 thing. His own versatility. He can play on all spots in midfield and during a long season many teams experience very unlucky periods for certain positions with double injury's or so. He must be a very attractive candidate for a club, being a solution for that problem also, on top of being young, talented and relative speaking cheap.

    As he indicates he wants to play, I can't believe it will be an elite team. Rather sub top teams in one of the major competitions. Then it would not be bad to develop under a Dutch coach. At Fulham there is one with Dempsey and Dembele departing probably. Jol is also very minded to snatch the Eredivisie prospects (also after Narsingh and already bought Ruiz). At Schalke there is another Dutch coach with Raul leaving. This way there is at least some air for him to fail at first if he insist on being so hard headed to move abroad at the age of 18. If he aims for a top team in the Netherlands, Ajax would be an obvious choice.

    This is a player that has already rejected many top teams when he was much younger, so his judgement should be trusted a bit more in terms of looking out for his own development. All I hope is that he knows what he is doing. Would not like him to be a Sahin counting stars on the bench at a fancy club.
     
  15. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    “Binnen Nederland kan er ook sprake zijn van een stap omhoog”

    Translation:

    "Within Netherlands you can also move up"

    This is from another article. I see this as an open invitation to Ajax to make AZ an offer. Especially if Eriksen is sold this year after a good Euro I can see Maher playing in the Ajax shirt next year to replace him.
     
  16. roro10

    roro10 Member

    Oct 11, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I agree with the points you made, but I want to point out that RVP was indeed voted the best player in the EPL by both the players and coaches.
     
  17. KPSmit

    KPSmit Member

    Nov 26, 2011
    New York
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    So... both Buttner and Emanuelson cut? I was not expecting that. I was personally hoping to see Buttner get some starts in these upcoming friendlies to see what he was capable of (i have never personally watched him ).
     
  18. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    let's not kid ourselves about possible lineups at EC12 with newbies in them (John, Buttner, Maher, etc), or supper attacking lineups. The main XI will be:
    Van der Wiel - Heitinga - Mathijsen - Schaars​
    van Bommel - De Jong​
    Robben - Sneijder - Kuyt/Afellay​
    van Persie​
    The back line and DMs are almost certain, BvM will want defensive security on the wings so it'll be Kuyt or Afellay (please be Afellay) there, not RvP with Huntelaar up top. RvP will probably be the main striker despite the fact that Huntelaar works better in that position (and please don't start a rage fest over this statement). The wingers will play on their reverse wings despite Robben being way more destructive when he's running towards goal rather than parallel to the 18yrd box. But we can hope that BvM liked the Robben of the England game and will be willing to play him there again​
     
  19. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  20. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Vorm hands down at No.2. Anything other than is stupid because the No.2 Goal Keeper will never play but you can sub him incase of penalties. 115th Minute In comes Vorm. That is my reasoning for him being No.2.

    Krul is hit or miss. Sometimes he is great & When he is GREAT he is really Great,sometimes when he lets in a couple of goals he gets disheartened way too quickly & panics & lets in more goals by being over enthusiastic.
    They would gladly Kick him out for 2-3 months. 8 of their players are German Nationals & they drawn in the same group. The rest like Tymo,Gustavo or Ribery would not care too much is he is out for a month or too. Ideally they shold not do it.

    But I wont put it past them. It would be a bad PR stuff but when you have a Stupid Slider like Tymo in the team its better to rest Robben
     
  21. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    A number 2 keeper comes in when in regular time the first keeper gets injured or gets a red card. Maybe you want to check how many red cards Stek has accumulated at Roma this year alone. What happens when you are down to 10 men? You get under pressure and often, if not always, that leads to countless corners and set pieces close to the box. Who is pretty bad at those? Vorm. He has been bad at coming out and stump the ball away and control his area. Not that weird as he is a little fellow, but not good nevertheless. Krul is better at that. Vorm is however an excellent reaction keeper. So Krul in regular time, Vorm is interesting if we still have a sub over and we go into penalty's. If both scenario's play out in the same game, I wouldn't spend all my subs on keepers alone so Krul can stay on. He is not bad at stopping penalty's either. Krul and Vorm are probably both better than Stek at penalty's.

    Krul is the best keeper in EPL with Hart and Vorm. He has 15 clean sheets which is most after Hart and De Gea. That number communicates consistency and I also think he is mentally very strong. Not for nothing he didn't step away from confrontation with RVP who is higher up the pecking order in both EPL and Dutch NT. He has been great for us against Brazil and Vorm was actually the one letting an easy ball in against Tunesia IIRC. As Netherlands already play a reactionary brand of football under Bert we have to use the moments where the other team is disorganized. They are that when they have just set up an attack and didn't score from their play. Then I want a keeper that just grabs the ball and immediately sees and acts on an opportunity to benefit. In the time Vorm needs to do this, I can make myself a cup of coffee. It takes to long.

    So I want Krul in for regular time problems with Stek and Vorm in, in case we go into penalty's.
     
  22. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Distribution is not that key with oranje anymore. Rather it is meaningless. Steke is not a standout. That is a non criteria. Both Heitinga & Mathijsen are a bit slow on the ball. None of them stand out as excellent passers. So the Distribution in general is not going to work out well. All the Attack starts from the back.

    I have seen Krul play. He is a Hit or Miss Keeper IMO. How many goals have NewCastle conceded?? Multiple 3-4-5 goals matches. And its not just the defense's failt. Krul panicks,sometimes rushes out un-necessarily,is doing stupid things out of position.

    I dont blame him. He has had barely 2-3 years of Professional Football consistently in his life. He has no experience.

    That is where Vorm stands out playing in a team like Swansea just promoted from 2nd Division & he has played well. He is decently calm on the ball. And I dont find Krul to be anything great at crosses. Krul for me is an Excellent Shot Stopper. Vorm brings calmness or maturiy.

    If Steke gets a red card then of the attacking players would probably have to sacrificed. I cant imagine Sneijder or RVP being sacrificed. A Red card is a death knell. And if Steke gets it I would like Vorm to come on simply because in those moments of panic he would be calm & cool.

    If Krul gets a couple of saves he would probably be on fire,if he does not, He will let in Multiple goals. That is what I am trying to say. Its like Clean Sheets or 3 goals for him. I think he has conceded 3+ goals in 10 games atleast
     
  23. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Other issue is Jetro Willems. I have seen a bit of him & Pieters(who is way average & mediocre) is much better than simply for the reason that Pieters can defend a bit atleast.

    Willems will be Urby & Drenthe part 2. Wing-Backs who cant defend & will end up as Wingers/Midfielders. I dont get it when people say that he can defend & attack because he is HORRIBLE defensively. Has he changed suddenly in the last 4-5 games???

    I think Strootman at LB is a possibility too. He is tall,faster than Schaars,Anita & Bouma. Good passer & distributer,reasonable defender. No idea how he will do at LB.

    But there are 4 games before the Euro.
    Bayern(May 22),Bulgaria(May 26),Slovakia(May 30),Northen Ireland(June 2)

    I would like to see all 4 Being Tested. Willems in the first 2 games. As the final selection is on the 29th. I want to see Willems play 65 minutes against Muller & then hopefully Schaars or Anita play 25 minutes.

    Bulgaria again I want to see Willems/Schaars & Anita play 45 minutes each. If none of the 3 can convince go for Strootman against Slovakia (70 minutes) & Bouma (20 minutes). In the June 2nd friendly play your 1st choice LB.

    Bayern game would be a good test for Germany with 8 of them there & Muller at RW. If Willems lasts 65 minutes+ then its good. Otherwise try Schaars for the last few minutes. This game will show if they are defensively exposed or not as LB.

    Whoever plays better in that match against Bayern should play 45 minutes with the other going 45 going to Anita. If none of them can convince,then try out Strootman with Bouma:)eek::redface::sick::speechless:) ( as the last resort.
     
  24. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The opposite is true. It has become more important than ever. Under Bert we basically let attack do it on their own and there is no dynamic game play to brake down bunker teams or well organized ones. So the spare moments we can benefit from, are those seconds where the opponents have just missed their chance. Players are in advanced position. Their team is longer and there are more spaces to capitalize on. In those moments I don't want Vorm's calmness and a soft ball to the CB's. I want a quick brake out from time to time so Robben, RVP or Afellay can do their job in seconds of less resistance. They have to do it on their own anyway, better to benefit from those moments. So I disagree strongly with this point.

    Krul does have some strange behavior from time to time. That is correct. However I can say for example that against Chelsea when he conceded 4 goals, he was still MoTM IMO. He had magnificent saves and drove Sturridge crazy. It does have to do with Newcastle defense. Not for nothing they see Pieters as a major improvement on left back and need more defenders when the transfer window opens.

    Vorm is horrible at corners and punching the ball away at set pieces. Krul is better and much taller. In 10 vs 11 situations we would have a moment of crisis with Vorm in the goal with every ball in. We can't have that.

    When the season was underway he actually passed the ball right in the feet of the opponent. You can zoom in on all actions of keepers and label it the way you want. That was not calm and cool (a trait very much magnified also by the way Swansea play BTW), but disconcentration and being blurry.

    I actually think he is mentally very strong and what you say would signal a mental problem. That is not in his character. Being pretty young and already in the goal of a club like Newcastle becoming one of the best keepers in England does not breath mental issue's. It's just a leaky defense. When Newcastle's defense is not organized they get that. It's a team that benefit's especially from their organization and they get in trouble when that is off for a game. Krul stand up against RVP and even tells him to speed up when he was the one buying time to end the game positive for his team. he has guts and van Marwijk has called him a winner. I don't buy supposed causality between some high conceding games and Krul's character. I think it only correlates and the cause has to be searches with other factors.
     

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