The fight against modern football 3

Discussion in 'Business and Media' started by Numquam Moribimur, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001


    So why didn't the people from Fulham or Hammersmith buy the ticket before me? They had the same opportunity. How do foreign tourists drive up prices. The price of that ticket was going to be the same no Matt who bought it.
     
  2. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except for a relatively few teams, most games are not sold out anyway. Foreign soccer tourists are not preventing any local fans of the large majority of clubs from buying tickets.
     
  3. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    as for the tourist deals, this reselling (which more than just "happens", just look at the free "guides" in tourist information offices) does indeed concern only the world famousclubs: chelsenal, big firm, perhaps spurs (iirc which is always a long shot). liverpool city and everton united undoubtedly, but i've never ventured into the wilds of darkest lancashire.

    even if the market niche they represent makes their influence go beyond their actual numbers and the fact that they're only interested in the "big 4" is unfortunate it itself, it's true that visiting fans have a minimal effect on the total situation. why do i have a problem with it? because my view of football and life are radically different from that underlying the whole mod€rn footba££ phenomenon. from the moment words like customer, market or financial model find their place in the debate, for me the dead hand has cast its shadow and words like game, sport and support are hard to apply.

    the word ilk on the other hand commands rep for any post containing it. but hey, that's me.
     
  4. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    that's what they've been doing at OL the last few years too. of course the cards can be loaned to friends, business associates or guests, but using them for a scalping operation would be difficult: getting a lost (or "lost") card replaced is not free (not even nominal, i think my son paid 50€ when he lost his).

    as for saving on personnel costs, i doubt that's true. there are always more people at the gates than necessary for just punching tickets for obvious reasons. as for the turnstiles themselves, if you make them too easy to get through you need surveillance to keep people out, and if they're too difficult you need assistance to get people in.
     
  5. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001

    Let me tell you what happened to me once. I bought tickets from a ticket broker over the web. They were the cards mentioned above. Got to the ground and found out the supporters had been banned. Had to buy two tickets from the club. Called my credit card company and disputed the charge. After the game called the broker. Told him we were denied entrance to the ground and gave his information to the club. Also said we have called my credit card company to dispute the charge. Fortunately received money back from company for bad tickets
     
  6. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
     
  7. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
     
  8. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I think a season ticket is about £10 if you lose it, but a standard membership card is less. Cards definitely do get given to family/friends when people can't make the game, but that's sort of tolerated, as normally those people are only going because it's free.

    You've clearly seen english turnstiles before, but they are typically much better at making sure only one person at a time comes through than many on the continent. They don't need extra people to operate them, or show people how to use them, as the system has been in place for nearly 15 years now.

    While not hugely paid, it does mean saving on employing about 30 people around the ground, but I do think it's having the fans on the database that's the main plus point for the club.
     
  9. Numquam Moribimur

    May 30, 2005
    Club:
    Manchester United FC

    United's traveling away fans do a good job of " doubling up" :)
     
  10. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway

    No need to stigmatize all Køln fans because of what a few do.
     
  11. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Well if you can`t afford them because the price is to high it do not matter where you live.
     
  12. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Again comparing a resturant to a club is still incomparable.
    No you might not be any less of a fan. But you are a different type of supporter.
     
  13. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Any other sports with the same type of managment ??
     
  14. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    To be honest, the number of foreign tourists at any league game, even for the Big 4, is so small as to be irrelevant in ticket pricing.

    Fulham might get more than most due to being in London and being probably the easiest premier league club in the area to get a ticket for, but the idea that their ticket prices are high because of foreign tourists going to games is just silly. Ticket prices are high across the board in England. It costs £12 - Bundesliga terrace prices - to get into a 6th division match in England. I could be wrong, but I don't think tickets prices at Droylsden and Solihull Moors are being bumped up by thousands of tourists flocking to their games.
     
    guignol repped this.
  15. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not in the US, no. None of the other leagues here would allow a team to have that type of ownership structure, since they don't want a team to be owned by a large group of fans. The Packers are an exception.

    University sports teams are closer to the European club team ideal in that they're not aupposed to be about business. This is especially true of sports teams at public universities. In theory, at least, collegiate sports aren't about making money, but exist as part of the idea that universities are supposed to encourage a healthy mind and body. Whether or not this is still true is debatable, to say the least.
     
  16. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    We are talking of two different worlds here. You are talking of affording tickets to a match after a 1000-1500 dollar trip ? Im talking of youngsters and people that may not even afford the ticket.

    I do not hate football tourist. All i want is for lokals to be in focus by the clubs . Off course football tourism is a good thing in moderate amounts. To much will dilute the football. And i think that has happend to EPL . Football tourists might enjoy it now , but i think it will ruin the product in the long run if it isn`t seen as a potential problem .
     
  17. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we're talking about football tourists, they only exist in any significant numbers for a very small number of clubs. The vast majority of teams focus their efforts on making their local fans happy. If I recall correctly, you're in Norway, right? I bet the number of non-locals attending games in that league are 10% or less of the crowd.
     
  18. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Well if you start to compare EPL to Bundesligen you have to see them as a hole. Iff you see how EPL is "designed" and how the Bundesligaen is Designed you would see that Bundesligaen hase a system to protect the German fans interests from the start. EPL has pushed out standing and singing fans over time and replaced them with little more pulite bunsh of people and tourists. Agree? England banned the terraces and blamed the fans. Germany meet with the fans and witch led to a dialog and mutual respect. Something i think has resulted in a better product over all than the EPL. If EPL do not try to reconnect with their roots i think the league will loose it self. But that is my opinion.
     
  19. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Why ?

    If im not worng the visiting numbers of University sports can get HUGE partly as a result from to high prizes in leagues like NFL ?
     
  20. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the US, the sports leagues are each basically one big business (to a greater or lesser extent, depending on the league). The other owners want their partners in the league to run their businesses rationally, and fans can't always be trusted to be rational about their team. It hasn't been an issue with the Green Bay Packers because they have historically been one of the NFL's most succesful teams, both financially and on the field. But nobody really wants a fan-owned team as a business partner.

    There are a number of collegiate sports programs that have high attendance and make money for their universities, especially collegiate football programs. However, the majority of collegiate sports teams, including most football programs, lose money and need to be subsidized by their parent university.
     
  21. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway

    If one clubs starts to raise their prizes you can bet your money the rest will follow. So if a small number of the clubs in EPL gets so many tourists that they see their chance to earn just a little more money , they will. Then the rest will follow.

    Yes sitting here in cold icy Norway :p But to compare Tippeligaen and EPL here isn`t possible.
    EPL has players making more money a year than the biggest clubs in Norway have on a years budget. Two different worlds.
     
  22. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, I guess we agree that whatever price increases might be going on in Norway have nothing to do with soccer tourists.
     
  23. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Well seems like a control freak , greedy , selfish and typical business way of dealing with the issue. Offcourse from my point off view.
    And i find it funny that the only "fan owned" club is the most succesesfylly team and yet everyone is so skeptical to the model. In most cases i think a increased feeling of belonging or ownership would leads to more or better effort by its eployees or fans.


    If they have high attendance how can the team not earn money? Do any of the players get paid?
     
  24. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Yes with todays status in Norway, football tourism has nothing to do with the ticket prices here. What is your point ?
     
  25. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The number of tourists at games is, and always has been, irrelevant. Ticket prices started rising long before sell-outs were common, let alone normal. If there were no tourists at games, ticket prices wouldn't be lower.

    Ticket price rises are a product of the the "arms race" approach to funding squads here, with clubs nudging up the price regularly to give them more money to spend, without do it so much that fans stop going. It has nothing to do with the number of tourists as games, which is tiny.

    It was more of a change of thinking in the 80s. Clubs got into the idea of maximising their income, rather than saying high crowds allowed them to keep ticket prices low. It only takes a few clubs to "break ranks" in that sense to force eveyone else to go the same way. The ticket prices then started rising, and that was long before teams were selling out.
     

Share This Page