FIFA World Ranking

Discussion in 'Women's International' started by jonny63, Mar 17, 2006.

  1. fire123

    fire123 Member+

    Jul 31, 2009
    I will probably be dead ...
    and indeed I will have all the time in the World then. :D
     
  2. Matilda Maniac

    Matilda Maniac Big Soccer Memebr

    Sep 21, 2006
    Perth
    Club:
    Perth Glory
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    "Moresby Girl" win World Cup !

    Quote: " The PNG National Women's Football team today created history by beating Brasil in the final of the 2185 Women's World Cup. Despite Brasil being the under-dogs, they put up a courageous display, preventing the 'Birds of Paradise' from breaking down their defence. . Scoreless at half-time, it took some individual brilliance from Port Moresby United's player of the year Mivai Simamoi to score 2 late goals to seal the win for FIFA's #1 ranked womens team.
    The 'Birds of Paradise" not only keep the trophy, but will continue to keep their FIFA #1 ranking ahead of the USA, who were sensationally knocked-out at the quarter-final stage by the ever-improving Tongans."

    www.papuantimes.org.ng/headlines/sport/Moresby_girl_wins/world/cup/html
     
  3. usa3por2ft

    usa3por2ft Member

    Oct 15, 2002
    in exile
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You really need to check out the tagline of the person you're responding to before you go there.

    This is just wrong. For most teams, being one of the seeds in the tournament isn't even an aspiration. Making the tournament at all is the prize, and how berths are allocated is the key issue. In determining who gets more berths at the margin, it makes sense to look at the strength of federations at the margin of World Cup qualification -- which should be between about 20th and 50th in the ranking. When some of CAF's best sides are ranked 20 to 30 places lower than they should be, then CAF looks weaker than it should in this respect. That's going to influence how FIFA decides to allocate the berths. (It's not going to be the only thing, of course -- there's a lot of politics, too.)
     
  4. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Sorry to bother the... ho-hum... discussion about different rankings methods. :p

    I just wanted to ask some FIFA rankings guru if you think that Brazil could drop down any position in the next iteration of FIFA ranking, after losing three matches in a row: 1-2 vs Canada in a friendly match and both matches of the Kirin Cup Challenege in Japan (that I guess count as friendly matches as well), 0-3 to USA and 1-4 to Japan.

    I am not really involved, since I am a Nadeshiko Japan fan: 'twas just out of curiosity. :p

    Edit: by the way, go Papua New Gunea 2185!!! ^__^
     
  5. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Against Canada -15 points (2078)
    Against USA -10 points (2068)
    Against Japan -8 points (2060)

    If Sweden win their next friendly against Scotland by five goals or more, they will overtake Brazil.
     
  6. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Let's see if I learned anything and if I got it right :p: Brazil loses less points for the Japan match than for the USA match, although USA is ranked higher than Japan and the goal difference is the same in both matches, because, since Japan was playing at home, its win was more 'expected' than USA's one?

    Edit: also, if Sweden catches Brazil, this fact could greatly influence London's seeding? Or they will happen before next FIFA's rankings?
     
  7. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    That and their goal against Japan gives them a .8% higher share of the points allotted for the match. Admittedly not a huge difference.

    I think FIFA does not limit itself to the published quarterly rankings, so Papua New Guinea's recent results will surely be the tipping point. The Olympic draw is on FIFA's calendar for April 24.
    http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/calendar/events.html
     
  8. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Yes, because Japan played at home they got +100 ranking points for the purpose of the ranking calculation. That's also the reason why the USA gained and Japan lost points for the 1:1 draw.


    I don't know how they seed the teams, usually geographic criteria were used. FIFA didn't publish any informations about this yet (or I didn't find them).
     
  9. mcruic

    mcruic Member

    Jun 26, 2004
    Scotland
    Club:
    Dundee United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    As a sidenote - sometimes FIFA misses (usually less important) matches before the ranking deadline (for example, 2 British Virgin Islands v US Virgin Islands friendly matches last month). In that case, the points for these matches are added to the next issue of the ranking.

    So, technically, this means that the previous ranking is inaccurate (but once it's been published, it isn't usually changed afterwards).

    FIFA could go down the route of updating the rankings immediately after each game, which wouldn't be too difficult. Or maybe even once a week. In my opinion, the women's rankings are released too infrequently.
     
  10. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Fortunately, Edgar promises an update tomorrow, for those of us too lazy to pull out paper and pencil.
    http://www.football-rankings.info/
     
  11. JanBalk

    JanBalk Member+

    Jun 9, 2004
    It could, but only if FIFA drastically changes how they create the pots for the drawing.
    Recently (as far back as I can recall) FIFA only uses the rankings for the 1st seed pot. And with spots guaranteed for host and holder the only ranking that matters would be which of the participating teams (except US and UK) have the highest ranking and joins US and UK in the top-seed. The other pots are created based on Confederations unless FIFA chages it's spots.
     
  12. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    So, at the moment, the first seeded teams of each group are sure to be US, UK and Japan, if I understand correctly? (No-one can catch up with Japan before the draw).

    The spot guaranteed for the host team is quite annoying in a so "lttle" tournament (just 12 teams!). Basically it says that UK will avoid US and Japan, and anyone will get a "top team" that could easily be first seeded, as Brazil, Sweden or France (ok, the Brazil seen today shouldn't worry much teams, but the "Marta factor" can make them compete for medals anyway). I mean, there are just three groups, and UK gets one of the first seeded spots, although it's a worse team (by FIFA rankings) than at least 5 other teams in London! :eek:
     
  13. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I wouldn't underestimate an England team finally able to play with all the other missing parts from the always competitive Arsenal Ladies. Come the Olympics, playing on home soil, they will very likely justify that false seeding.
     
  14. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    More accurately, they will be empowered by the false seeding, as it is pretty customary for the host country to get the assist path to at least the semis.
     
  15. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Sorry, don't want to bother too much this thread about this subject, because I suppose there must be (maybe :confused:) another thread dedicated to that, but should we suppose that the pots for the groups in London would be something like this?
    Pot A: USA, Japan, UK
    Pot B: Brazil, Sweden, France
    Pot C: Canada, North Korea, New Zealand (?)
    Pot D: Colombia, South Africa, Cameroon

    (By the way, I have to suppose UK will also deploy some strong Scottish player?)

    Could it be realistically like that? (I guess Canada can't be realistically anything but third seeded, but in this case it will be for sure a loose cannon that no big team will want in their group...)

    I hope there will be some kind of real "draw" and FIFA won't adjust things suiting their needs... (although I admit there could be "corrections" to not have teams from the same confederation, that just battled in qualifications groups, in the same group at Olympics: so no Colombia in Brazil's group, no Canada in USA group, no North Korea in Japan group... well, it's a lot of ties, now that I think about it... Makes me feel like the groups are somehow already made :eek:).

    Or they could put these FIFA rankings to good use and made pots based exclusively on rankings, with no ties, so they'll be super-fair. Will it ever happen?

    Anyway, I guess that, if the problem of "false seeding" is bad in a 24 teams/6 groups tournament, like males' WC, it's even worse in a "little" 12 teams/3 groups tournament, because it can potentially warp the competition even more... :(
     
  16. mcruic

    mcruic Member

    Jun 26, 2004
    Scotland
    Club:
    Dundee United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    By "missing parts", do you mean the Scottish and Welsh players? There are only 3 at Arsenal (2 Scottish and 1 Welsh) who are eligible (Julie Fleeting has ruled herself out). There's been talk of Jess Fishlock (Bristol Academy/Wales) and Gwennan Harries (Everton/Wales) being considered as well.

    I will be interested to see if FIFA counts GB matches as England matches if any non-English player plays. It would be a bit silly if they did (and it would prove Scotland and Wales right in their opposition to sending players to the GB team).

    GB kind of has to get a top seeding as hosts, because FIFA ranking couldn't be used to determine their seeding (GB doesn't have a ranking).
     
  17. Edgar

    Edgar Member

    When was that? Not in 2004, nor in 2008.

    See this thread.
     
  18. JanBalk

    JanBalk Member+

    Jun 9, 2004
    Actually I can't see that they used ANY rankings for the seeds in 2004 and 2008? And only for the 1st pot in WWC so where do you get that they used ranking for more of the pots?
     
  19. Edgar

    Edgar Member

    My actual question (sorry if it wasn't very clear) was: "Why do you say FIFA used rankings to determine the seeds?"
     
  20. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    FIFA will not count results as England per an agreement with the
    Olympic movement, the FA, and grudging acceptance by the three other FA's who have all stated they will have nothing to do with the team for, aparently for fear of their National and IFAB status.

    That said, it sure looks like Sepp thinks England is playing.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympic_games/8076346.stm


    It was the Brits who originally insisted to the Olympics that they were one Nation and to FIFA that they were four.
     
  21. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    So if I got it right, it will basically be an England team, "renamed" as UK for Olympics reasons, but deploying no players from other GB nations? :confused:
     
  22. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I think you might get a different answer depending on who you ask and in front of whom. Sepp seems to think it's England, and the Olympic movement thinks it's GB.

    I would be very surprised if a player from those FA's plays when they have the implications "explained" to them.
     
  23. Edgar

    Edgar Member

  24. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Well, no real surprises, I guess, except maybe Brazil is tumbling down even faster than we believed... :p

    England, as a first seeded in Olympics, would really be behind more than half the teams' pool, if it was up to rankings (USA, Japan, Sweden, Brazil, France, Canada and North Korea are ahead of them :eek:). Crazy.

    But you know what is the real BIG surprise here? Well, after all this talking, Papua New Guinea is going to lose 1 place and 17 points!!! :eek::rolleyes:
    What did happen? Tonga's revenge?
     
  25. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Two matches against New Zealand. A 0:8 loss and a 0:7 loss.
    Doesn't sound much worse than Switzerland against Germany to me. :p
     

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