2014 FIFA WC QLF, AFC: Group B

Discussion in 'AFC: Tournaments' started by Nurafshon, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. Elspamo

    Elspamo Member

    Mar 7, 2012
    USA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Qatar
    I think Iraq have a huge advantage over Jordan and Oman in terms of player quality. Obviously, I'm a little biased since most of their players play in the QSL, but look at their squad:
    Younis Mahmoud - Imo, the best Arab striker (still playing) when he is on good form. Since joining Al Wakrah, he's played dismally for the club, but for some reason it didn't affect his national performance.

    Nashat Akram - Good all-round midfielder and playmaker. He's also able to take penalties and free kicks.

    Salam Shakir - By far the best defender for Al Khor. He is more of a traditional defender. One of the main reasons Al Khor wasn't relegated last season, and also a reason for winning both of their matches so far in the GCC (he made an amazing goal-line save against Al Nasr).

    And that's just a few of their players. Jordan lacks any player quality and depth - only player I can think of is Hassan Abdelfattah (plays for Al Khor), and he hasn't been any good so far for his club. Oman may stand a slim chance for the third spot since they've got some good players (Ahmad Al Hosni and Ali Al Habsi come to mind), but they've been in pretty bad shape through the third round qualification.
     
  2. amrizzle

    amrizzle Member

    Jun 29, 2007
    Footballistan
    If they turn up the style, Oman are capable of beating anyone on their day. But their qualifying performance in a weak group was nothing to note. Jordan and Iraq are far more likely to get 3rd.

    But the Middle Eastern games will be hard to call. They are basically all derby games and so you simply cannot guess the scores. What I can be almost sure of though is Jordan and especially Iraq are far more likely to pick up away points than Oman.
     
  3. burning_phoneix

    Jul 13, 2008
    Saudi Arabia
    Club:
    Al Wehda Mecca
    Nat'l Team:
    Saudi Arabia
    Iraq and Jordan were in an even weaker group than Oman...
     
  4. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    I didn't think Oman's group was weak at all.
     
  5. burning_phoneix

    Jul 13, 2008
    Saudi Arabia
    Club:
    Al Wehda Mecca
    Nat'l Team:
    Saudi Arabia
    I know Saudi Arabia are in a rough patch right now, but surely people would rather want China and Singapore in their group and not Saudi and OZ.

    That's why I think Oman are better than Iraq, Oman got through a tough group where even the Thais aren't easy prey.

    But a group with Jordan, China and Singapore? Oman would have coasted through just as easily as Iraq did.
     
  6. amrizzle

    amrizzle Member

    Jun 29, 2007
    Footballistan
    Jordan's recent performances have been far better than Oman and Saudi's, as have Iraq's. Look at last year's Asian Cup for evidence of this. If I recall correctly, Jordan came second by a whisker to Japan, while the Saudis went home with zero to show for it, scoring 1 and conceding 8; Oman on the other hand were nowhere to be seen! Iraq went out to the eventual finalists Australia by a last minute ET goal too...the facts show it well enough.

    The FIFA rankings also reflect it. I don't know how you could even argue your case with anything other than a weakly presented opinion.

    On paper to someone who hasn't been following Asian football, Oman's group may seem tougher with Australia and Saudi present. Sure China are weaker than Australia, but that doesn't make the group weaker. If anything it's more competitive. Considering Australia ran away comfortable winners.
     
  7. Mussab86

    Mussab86 Member+

    Jan 20, 2006
    Jabriya, Kuwait
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Iraq
    Well said my friend
     
  8. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    The only reason Oman didn't qualify was because of the draw. Only two qualifiers were on FIFA dates where we could play our full squad, and both were against Oman. They gave a very good fight in those games. Kuwait got to play against our second and 3rd string squad and came away with 4 points from the two games.

    Australia ran away comfortable winnners on the table but some of the games were anything but. Thailand really impressed me in their two games. We worked very hard to overcome them at home after falling behind and were lucky with the win away against them. Saudi Arabia also gave us some trouble in last match before falling away at the end. Oman were strong at home but didn't perform as well away. We will see how Jordan compare soon enough. We can also easily compare the better teams in the round 3 groups, as both qualifiers from Groups A and D are together. As for my own opinion, when I look at the teams that didn't make it I'm quite confident that the two that missed out from Group D (Saudi Arabia and Thailand) are both better than the two that missed out from Group A (China and Singapore).
     
  9. burning_phoneix

    Jul 13, 2008
    Saudi Arabia
    Club:
    Al Wehda Mecca
    Nat'l Team:
    Saudi Arabia
    Then how do you account for Singapore or China?

    Look at Iraq's and Jordan's group: The two winners have a combined total of 26 points, the highest of any of the group's winners indicating a top heavy group.

    Face it, Thailand and Saudi Arabia are far better than China and Singapore and Australia are better than Iraq. Therefore, it makes sense that Oman had the tougher group.
     
  10. Kutsuit

    Kutsuit Member

    Mar 2, 2011
    Kuwait City
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Kuwait
    That's no excuse for failing to qualify, though. Let's not forget that Oman played their last game at home, against Kuwait. If they really deserved to qualify to the 2011 Asian Cup, then they would've won that match. The fact of the matter is, they didn't deserve going to Qatar. No offence but you're making it sound like Kuwait were lucky to be in the Asian Cup, last year. :p
     
  11. Kutsuit

    Kutsuit Member

    Mar 2, 2011
    Kuwait City
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Kuwait
    Saudi Arabia and Thailand were, indeed, far better opponents than China and Singapore in the 2014 World Cup qualifiers. On paper, China should have offered a greater challenge to Iraq and Jordan, but things obviously didn't go their way.

    Therefore, it's true that Oman had a more difficult group than Iraq and Jordan.

    Having said that, Oman's squad is nowhere near as good, or as experienced, as Iraq's squad. While Oman's greatest footballing achievement was winning the 2009 Gulf Cup of Nations, Iraq, on the other hand, qualified to the 2004 Summer Olympic Games football tournament, where they finished fourth, finished runners-up in the 2006 Asian Games football tournament, and won the 2007 Asian Cup. Iraq has been the better team over the past eight years.

    Jordan were also able to reach the Asian Cup quarterfinals two times, in the past eight years, while Oman's record in the 2004 and 2007 Asian Cup tournaments was nothing short of disappointing.

    When all is said and done, Oman might surprise everyone in the upcoming round, although I don't expect them to. I expect Iraq to offer the greatest challenge to Australia and Japan. :)
     
  12. amrizzle

    amrizzle Member

    Jun 29, 2007
    Footballistan
    Oman failed to qualify because they weren't good enough to qualify. Not because Kuwait played a weaker Australia side.

    As far as Thailand are concerned, while they have been spirited and do try, they're simply not good enough. The only reason they had a chance going into the final game was because of how weak the trio of teams behind Australia were. Saudi are a very average side, Iraq and Jordan are both stronger than Saudi and recent results undoubtedly show it, same with Thailand. China's recent results are also better than both those teams.

    Yes the group had Singapore who are very weak, but the other 3 teams are all competitive and have results to back it up.


    Spot on tbf.



    See above. Saudi are not better than China at present. They were in the past, but in their current state they are an absolute shambles, their FIFA ranking speaks volumes.
    I do agree that Thailand are better than Singapore though.
     
  13. burning_phoneix

    Jul 13, 2008
    Saudi Arabia
    Club:
    Al Wehda Mecca
    Nat'l Team:
    Saudi Arabia
    When has China been competitive?

    They got two wins from Singapore and a win from a Jordan team that already qualified and was playing with what I believe to be a second string.
     
  14. Mussab86

    Mussab86 Member+

    Jan 20, 2006
    Jabriya, Kuwait
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Iraq
    I think besides Australia and Japan, Iraq is the best 3rd team that can represents Asia in the world cup from this group if we consider Iraq's performances in the international level (2009 Confederations Cup and 2004 Olympic Games).

    I cant see Jordan or Oman anywhere near the international level.
     
  15. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    I'm not offended but it is my opinion that all things being equal Oman would have qualified for last years Asian Cup. If we had our full squad available for all the qualifiers it would have been with us. If all the matches were on non FIFA dates it would have been with Kuwait and we wouldn't have got there.
     
  16. amrizzle

    amrizzle Member

    Jun 29, 2007
    Footballistan
    China got more points than Saudi in the Asian cup. That's a wee bit more competitive than Saudi have been.

    It's pretty evident, Oman and Saudi are weaker than Iraq, Jordan and China. There's simply no two ways about it.
     
  17. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    I don't know how you get your results, but in 2008 in the last match between Oman and China, who won? Oman. Even in 2012 Olympic Qualifiers Oman won.

    Since 2004 against Iraq, in 7 matches, Iraq have won 2, Oman have won 4, so again, not sure about the two ways about it.

    And going back to the last decade between Oman and Jordan, both teams have basically matched each other, so I'm not sure Oman are weaker. Everyone thinks they are weaker, but they are in fact a decent outfit.

    Like almango said, Oman played Australia on two FIFA matchdays for 2011 qualification, no one else played Australian full strength teams.

    What Oman lack is that killer instinct against the top 4-5 nations, but they can certainly do a job against teams of a similiar stature. They are hard to beat at home and do tend to struggle away sometimes. They might not qualify, but they can certainly have a big say in who does.
     
  18. burning_phoneix

    Jul 13, 2008
    Saudi Arabia
    Club:
    Al Wehda Mecca
    Nat'l Team:
    Saudi Arabia
    A single tournament against different teams where the two teams in question did not even meet. That's hardly definitive proof.

    That's like saying New Zealand are better than France since NZ got 3 points in the last world cup and France only 1.
     
  19. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Personally I would say NZ were indeed better than France in summer 2010. However, since then France have much improved while New Zealand are still the same old New Zealand. ;)
     
  20. nimaa

    nimaa Member

    Apr 14, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    OMG
    I've been saying this for years and saudi members have been giving the same old excuses. It's not just one tournament. It's been years since SA has had anything to say on the Asian level. Kuwait, Iraq and Jordan are all better than SA. SA has been losing game after game in every tournament. What do you mean "a single tournament?"

    It's not just the Asian Cup. It's also the WC qualifiers and other competitions.

    Since 2010, SA has lost against Kuwait (TWICE), Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Japan (5-0). In the same time period SA has tied Kuwait, Qatar, Oman (twice), Indonesia and Thailand.

    SA is no longer stronger than Iraq, Kuwait or Jordan.
     
  21. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Definitely agree here, and I'm not Iranian :D
     
  22. burning_phoneix

    Jul 13, 2008
    Saudi Arabia
    Club:
    Al Wehda Mecca
    Nat'l Team:
    Saudi Arabia
    The post you quoted. Where was I comparing Saudi Arabia to Iraq, Kuwait or Jordan?

    I was comparing them to China, and frankly we are better than China.

    And those scores you post...they're from after 2010 so only two competitions: WC Qualifying and Asian Cup 2011.

    And also...when did we lose to Kuwait twice? All I recall was the Gulf Cup where we sent a B team and lost to Kuwait's A team in the final after extra time.

    Has Saudi Arabia declined in footballing stature? Yes, I would agree. Though I don't agree it's to the extent people believe.

    The difference is that New Zealand had a good tournament. China did not.
     
  23. amrizzle

    amrizzle Member

    Jun 29, 2007
    Footballistan

    Nobody said Oman weren't a decent side, they are just no way stronger than either Jordan or Iraq in that group. The recent results show it.

    Head to head results are relatively meaningless considering most were played years and years ago, and may include friendlies and tournament such as the Gulf Cup which are almost irrelevant. Also you can't come out and say Oman beat China in an Olympic qualifier as proof that they are a better team...the result doesn't factor in at all.

    The fact of the matter is China made the last Asian Cup and Oman didn't, Jordan have been a decent team for the last 2/3 years too, and Iraq have hit their best form since winning the Asian Cup in 2007. Oman may have a better head to head or have beaten China in their last outing, but these are results which they can't seem to carry consistently, hence their being seeded last in that group. They are the weakest team by far and their seeding reflects it fairly.

    Having said all that the games between the Middle Eastern teams will be difficult to call regardless as they always are.
     
  24. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    Oh sorry, you tell me they're the weakest team by far and then tell me all games between Middles Eastern teams will be difficult to call. Seem's you can't make your mind up?

    We have already talked about why Oman didn't make the last Asian Cup, if you factor in that they had to play an full strength Australian side twice and nobody else did, then you might just see that they would have probably have made it.

    They have also done quite well in recent Gulf Cup's which is probably the best factor we have between Oman and other ME sides.

    As for China, you say they are stronger cos they qualified for 2011 Asian Cup, but you feel to see how they did it, by beating Vietnam and Lebanon. Hardly set the world alight really.

    Oman, struggle to find the net against the bigger teams, but they can certainly mix it with any Asian nation outside the top 4 or 5 in my opinion. Not good enough to qualify for the WC as they aren't consistant enough, but a good shot at getting 3rd place.

    As for the seedings, do you really hold much wait on FIFA rankings?
     
  25. amrizzle

    amrizzle Member

    Jun 29, 2007
    Footballistan
    It's pretty simple tbh. They are the weakest team, but derby games are hard to call.

    It's kind of like Scotland Vs England for example. Always quite close games, even though England are miles and miles ahead in football terms. It's not really that hard to understand surely?

    We saw it when Bahrain kept getting results against their neighbours to good effect, but then shitting a brick whenever they played someone that was from further away or with a different style of football.

    In club football we call it a small club mentality, raising your game against neighbours and arch rivals, then dropping back to your normal poor game due it being too tiring to carry over a long period of time.

    Teams like Oman are the epitome of this.


    Well since the re-haul they have been far more reliable intra continentally. Internationally they're very weak, but as far as AFC rankings go, these seedings have been the most robust and close to the truth as they come. Better that than using 4 year old seedings like the mighty AFC used to!
     

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