this is really good and it really does capture how people in the south and in Napoli feel about everything
hopefully TTM will do something about this whole situation, but listen my friend don't let one Milan Moderator (whom I was very dissappointed by his comments) and one provacative Milan Fan MAKE YOU LEAVE OUR NAPOLI FORUM. we will all stick together on this one
You have actually educated me concerning the feelings of southern Italians and I thank you for that. Its true that I, nor anyone else, can change your feelings towards the way northern Italians look down on their southern counterparts. In truth the situation is more comparable to the plight of Mexicans in the United States if I'm not mistaken. However, as someone who's been mildly obsessed with Italian culture for 13 years I was fully aware of the rift between northern and southern Italy. I know all about the different regions that exist and don't really relate to one another. I understand that many Italians don't really speak "Italian", which is what makes Totti sound so funny and Cassano so difficult to understand. Its why Gattuso is such a hothead. I also know all about Silvio Berlusconi. I know he's a man with dirt all over his hands. In fact, I was explaining to a friend just the other day how he's a combination of George Bush and some corrupt Wall Street exec. He's a buffoon. A corrupt politician. A womanizer. A liar. A perv. A narcissist.And he's the best president of a football club, perhaps, ever. The underlined is the part that matters most to me. You see I understand who Berlusconi is. However, before I was ever aware of who he really was, I was a Milan fan. None of the rest of that matters to me. I often get into debates with a pacifist friend of mine who is taking a Peace Studies course in Spain about this. He says he can't separate Berlusconi's politics from his football club. I can, fortunately. Berlusconi loves Milan because Milan make him look good. In the face of all these scandals there he is with a tanned face and a big grin. If Milan looks bad, Silvio looks bad. Never mind his failed marriages, sex scandals, funky politics, corrupt laws, etc... Milan is his baby. His desire for Milan to be the biggest and best football club comes before almost anything else. In business and politics he may be immoral, but how could he be this kingpin of calcio when you consider the facts: Milan have won 7 domestic championships in 25 years since Berlusconi took over. Not exactly a large return on his investment of paying off all the refs and bribing every linesman. Milan have won 5 Champions League titles since Berlusconi took over. I know Silvio has deep pockets but damn he's paying off all of UEFA as well? I wonder how difficult it must be to know every referee in Europe and pay them off to make us win? Berlusconi is amongst the richest men in the world. He owns newspapers, television stations, websites, and he's the Prime Minister of his country. Yet, he can't organize a gangbang without the international press finding out about it. And this is the guy you think is secretly running all of Calcio??? I'm not stupid. I know Milan was involved with Calciopoli. Galliani knew who the referee's would be in Serie A matches just as much as Moggi, Facchetti, and probably De Laurentiis as well. I don't think any of these teams is at a huge advantage when it comes to this. The difference is money and transfers. You bought Cavani and are now challengers for the title after all. Lets not play moralists about where the money came from and this or that because its hypocritical and naive. Its in your nature to be distrustful of the northern powers, I understand. What you don't realize is how paranoid that makes you all look. Its like you're waiting for a bad call to pounce upon and cry wolf. Well, just like in the story, after a while crying wolf reflects more poorly on you than it does the accused. I see bad calls every week in Serie A. Its only the ones involving the teams near the top that ever garnish this amount of attention. And for the record, yes I'm from Indiana home of the KKK. I'm also an African American man from Indiana. So I understand overt oppression, discrimination, and racism. I'm sympathetic towards that. But we're talking about football.
Thanks for the reasoned response. Though to me there is a galactic black hole failure of moral reason at the center of it, one you are clearly aware of, that was discussed with your friend in Spain. You know Berlusconi is a champion scumbag, but you don't care, cuz he pours so much money into your team that he's kept you in the winner's circle for his tenure. The thing is, that he's not simply a scumbag. He's ruined the country that you've been studying for 13 years. He's ruined the careers of independent thinkers and artists, and brought the whole level of his media empire down to the most base and vapid and made it a corner stone of contemporary Italian culture. The culture of corruption he's created and enforced has ruined the economy, so that a whole generation of educated young Italians are largely hopeless for any prospects. He's fomented northern separatism and chauvinism for political gain. He's leveraged his private empire to gain public power to enforce his private power. He is merging corporate and state power in his own person, the very definition of nascent fascism. The list goes on and on. But most of all, and quite clearly, he is literally and quite clearly a sexual predator and pedophile. But because he is effective at making your preferred adoptive sports team win, you can have a schizophrenic break of denial around the pile of sh*t that this winning empire is built on. Buying Milan was the best investment B ever made, precisely because he can blur the lines of team support and nation support and support for himself with people who are easily manipulated and stunted in the moral reasoning department. By celebrating rather than protesting his use of the club for personal and political gain you debase whatever dignity might be salvageable under the AC Milan brand. I would gain some respect for Milan fans if they really started protesting Berlusconi in the stadium. Some people by sad accident of birth are tied to Milan, and I can't begrudge them that. But I can say most Napolitani would absolutely rebel against having such a monster own our club. We are rebels after all. I'm pretty shocked that someone who seems to be a pretty clear thinker in some respects, and even displays some self awareness about a massive moral failing, could persist in such a massive moral failing: "We love the pedophile cuz he helps us win!" Mamafingmia. Che Schifo! That's not club loyalty, that's not dignifying of Italy or Serie A, that's just sick. So please, really no need to come around here to the Napoli forum to deign to educate us about our sensibilities. I'm not over in your forum reflecting with all of you about your corruption and expedient servility to evil. As an African American gent living in the land of the KKK whose studied Italian history for 13 years I'd figure you'd be more sympathetic with the sensitivity that generations of chauvinism and discrimination can bring, but oh well. I don't know what perversity drew you to supporting Milan. There's plenty of racism to go around in Italy, but I think it's safe to say that there isn't a city in Italy where more African American soldiers have been getting laid longer than Napoli. To her credit, Napoli is a city with a strong moral sense but even bigger heart and passion. Milan is a soulless city. They may have fashion adverts in the north featuring Black Chic, but if you are talking about the rubber meeting the road where folks are actually getting down with each other, it's all for show in the North, but we're keeping it real down South. Until such time as you see the light, feel free to stay the heck out of here. And it's pretty sad to just accept the corruption of Calcio. As a Yank, you've got a pretty good model of how reffing can be done right. The NFL doesn't systematically favor a handful of elite teams over years of judging. It can be done better.
On this I have to disagree. I never supported Milan because they were winners. I didn't even know what I was getting into to be quite frank. We Americans are blessed in that our sports and pastimes aren't intertwined with politics. Quite the opposite really, sports are a political deadzone for us. Furthermore, when I began supporting Milan I was only 14 years old. What could I have known about those types of things at that age? So to me, separating Milan from Berlusconi is simple. You may say that I love Milan because Berlusconi made them winners, but its only partly true. I may have not known who Milan were had Berlusconi not injected money into the club, but despite not knowing what status they had in world football I chose them. I chose Milan for their colors. I chose Milan because it was someplace far and foreign and had a rich history. The first few years of following them consistently were 97-98, a cursory look at the league table will tell you I am no gloryhunter considering those circumstances. Even if Milan went to Serie B and/or Berlusconi left the club I would always follow Milan. Its a passion that has served me well in learning about different people, language, culture, etc... Hey, I didn't vote for him... and I don't "love" him. Nor do I love Milan because of him. Perhaps I'm a bit like Rivera? I love Milan. Morally I feel pretty solid. You see, thats the problem. Look at the bottom of the Napoli forum page where it says "Moderators." Voilà! Guess who? I'm not just a Milan moderator, I help in every Italian forum and sub-forum. In fact, I was here before there was a Napoli forum, just a thread, and I supported the creation of the official forums. Being a mod isn't about power, its about objectivity and reasoning. I've been reading and posting on these forums so long, I've seen every argument and after a while you just stop reacting in a incendiary manner. You do need some form of representation, however. I'll look into it. The NFL has salary caps that do a pretty good job of preventing the type of oligarchical systems present in European soccer. NFL refs are also professionals, not part timers like in Europe. I think its fair to say that with perfect referees the team with the most money/prestige will still attract the best players and win the most.
That's great that you picked a foreign team and a foreign sport in order to expand your horizons. But you aren't a 14 year old kid anymore, you know this guy in his 70s is paying for sex with underaged girls, and you still say "he's the best president of a football club, perhaps, ever." If you are in to red and black that much we can get you a colored pinwheel as a substitute, and maybe you can have a bit more perspective. That's great that you've supported the development of this site and this forum. Though I've been lurking for a while I'm a newb around here and not sure how things are supposed to work, but I absolutely think it's an abuse of the mod role to come into our Napoli forum and say we have "a seriously deranged sense of entitlement/delusions of persecution." It's one thing to have random Milan trolls poking us, but to have a Big Soccer Mod in here generally smearing us as a Milan fan is unacceptable. Is there a complaints process set up here, cuz this might be a good opportunity to use it?
What exactly do you intend to complain about? I hate to say it but there isn't a bouncer at the door that is checking to see who has a Napoli members card. This is an open forum, and anyone is entitled to come here and state their opinion. If someone comes in and is trolling and looking to start trouble, you can report the post and they will be dealt with. However you can't pretend that you are going to banish every person that has an opinion different than yours. Especially when they present their views in a calm and respectful manner. They have as much a right to post as you do. And this comes from a person that really really hates Berlusconi and what he's done to my country. I hope very much to see Berlusconi put in jail before he drops dead and is made a martyr. However if Jawz10 doesn't share my feelings I need to accept it and move on. So is life.
"San Siro è pronto a toccare gli 80.000 spettatori per il match scudetto di lunedì sera con il Napoli. Buona parte dei presenti sarà però li per sostenere gli azzurri di Mazzarri. Si attendono dai 20.000 ai 25.000 tifosi napoletani. Allegri ha un unico vero dubbio, chi schierare nel ruolo di terzino sinistro. Vilà non è ancora ritenuto pronto, tanto meno per un impegno di tale levatura. Bonera e Antonini sono out, mentre la buona notizia riguarda Zambrotta, rientrato in gruppo nella giornata di ieri. Le possibilità di vedere in campo l'esperto terzino non sono però elevatissime, vista la lunga inattività e la prudenza necessaria in questi casi. I candidati resterebbero Oddo (favorito) e Jankulovski. Non è da escludere però l'impiego a sorpresa di Emanuelson, sparito da qualche settimana dalla scena. L'esterno olandese è attualmente sottoposto ad un lavoro tecnico-tattico personalizzato da parte di Allegri che, se superato positivamente potrebbe portare anche al suo impiego dal primo minuto in posizione più arretrata." What a spectacle!
I just figured there was a higher standard for mods. I don't need everyone to agree with me, but it seems out of line with the mod job to be a fan of one team and go into another's forum and denounce that teams' fans across the board. There are plenty of mods who support other teams who check in warmly, which is always appreciated. And what would Calcio be without some good taunting. Certainly we can dish it out. What I find irritating is a mod coming in and saying "Napoli fans are _____." Come on. That seems pretty lame. There are plenty of Serie A teams I like and respect, and I have friends from Milan who are tifosi for AC Milan but aren't rude about it, and certainly aren't comfortable with their ownership. It just seems like a basic rule of hospitality that you don't go into someone elses space and insult them when you've taken on the role of sort of a meta host. And it's easy for a Napoli fan who is used to Milan fans talking trash about them to be sensitive on that point. I'm not comfortable with someone who's displayed that kind of bias towards the fans in this forum monitoring what should and shouldn't be said here. It just makes more sense for someone like that to contribute someplace else. But look, this is just some random website, and what I really care about and like is being able to hook up with other Napoli fans. I don't care about being harassed by other random fans on occasion. I would expect more from the mods, but whatever. Mostly, sono entusiasta soprattutto perché per noi questa è una settimana (cinque giorni) molto importante. Forza Napoli!!! e basta.
What's so objective about this part of your statement? Contradict yourself much? Here's my opinion, which I'm entitled to: Jawz is a shit mod and a gloryhunter. No one cares when you started supporting Milan or why you decided to. You have never been to the San Siro, have ZERO ties to the club, and can't cite their history(which you would see has elements of racism). Hence, you support a club with a history of racism. Bravo.
The name is this thread is "The other teams of serie a", which is generally an invitation for fans to discuss their rivals. In the event that a rival fan sees people railing against their team, its perfectly within their right to object (civilly). Considering the posts I read almost weekly here for the past 5 years, as well as the numerous other message boards I lurk on... I don't think calling Napoli tifo conspiracy theorists all that damning. Its not an opinion I formed in the past 2 weeks, its one I've observed over time. But I apologize nonetheless for offending you. However, I must reiterate DDR's sentiments: you call for one of your own to be a mod as if it that will exempt you from all criticism and/or scrutiny. In most cases I do tend to stay away and let you guys do your thing. But in special circumstances I feel I have to intervene. You see, we're not big bad moderators trying to keep you down, nor rile you up, I'm simply replying... to users using flippant comparisons to American segregation imagery. If the user had make a comparison to the Holocaust, I can assure you I would have replied with the same tone. You yourself admitted it was a bit over the top, and then you educated me a bit about the feelings that went into the statement.
Come on, grow up FNU. Finding racism in the past is like 6-degrees of Kevin Bacon. I can throw anything into google and find racism in its history. Lets try: Cavani7 eh? Cavani = Uruguay Uruguay = racism Did I do it right?
You becoming more territorial and agitated and you're going down a slippery slope. You've been down this road before. I'm not the guy you want to start abusing and flaming.
Guys just finish with the BS already. Please close the topic. Lets get on with the reason WE're here, Talking about, Critisizing, and above all Loving our team
Oh no, the big bad INTERNET TOUGH GUY! What are you going to do tough guy? You know I'm right. There was no invitation for other club fans to discuss THEIR OWN CLUBS in OUR FORUM.
I highly recommend WE ALL leave BS for another forum that doesn't contain such mods running around like they're the shit in each forum.
Well?????????? C'mon you hardcore Milanista fans, answer the question. I'm sure Google will help you.