Aguirre learned his lesson of not overlooking rivals no matter how pathetic and inferior they are. And he has an ace up his sleeve this time around.
I cannot see you guys not making it out of the group stage. I've seen Algeria play a few times, and I'm sure you guys will beat them with lil effort. Slovenia might give ya problems, but three points should be had there as well. England is your only loss, and it's only rather definitive because it's both team's opening game. Who knows...a third game match might've been meaningless for England, and you could've mustered a draw. Six points should be achieved, and will see you through.
Your link isn't working - is it the flying karate kick? I hope you're right - it might be a blessing playing England first, because if we lose we'll be desperate for points and if we get a result we'll be in decent shape. That's not entirely true - Spain, Italy and Portugal come to mind. And we've done well against other opponents without getting a result such as Germany (who we have beat a few times), Netherlands, etc. What you can say is that we have traditionally struggled playing away against European opponents (on their home pitch). It's true for Mexico? I think they've done well against Italy but I can't think of lots of other examples.
In world cups we've done pretty good against Europeans [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3arO00nC7s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3arO00nC7s[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOPb-ghXnqE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOPb-ghXnqE[/ame]
Many Euro teams have trouble stopping a team that has short, precise passing. Mexico and South Korea are like that. Again, using my supergeeky Warhammer analogy, Mexico has a +3 short passing that is excellent to break any team with a +1 to +4 longballs and +1 to +3 aerial. USA plays Northern Euro style, so when they face the masters of the trade in that (Germany, England, Denmark, Netherlands), they're in trouble.
I would call that a good omen of how the rest of the tournament would go for Mexico Here is a summary of how it ended. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITntOLfAuEc"]YouTube- Mexico vs USA Copa Oro Final 5 - 0 Highlights 7/26/09[/ame]
He played in 86, assistant coach in 94, and head coach in 02 so I believe that you sir are correct this will be Aguirre's 4th World Cup..
A really unusual group to me. Why? Here's why. France can beat and probably should beat Mexico (pedigree and size advantages) Mexico can and should beat Uruguay (continually show well at every Copa, sometimes even against the big boys, if in Conmebol would be a lock for third in most cycles). Uruguay can and may beat France (France is weak, should be good, but they just aren't, and the lone size advantage they have on Mexico is negated as Uruguay has size if memory serves. All of them can and probably should beat S. Africa. If Mexico was taller, I'd have them winning the group. They are coached very well, and are very confident. They will shine, but their knockout stage game is a killer if they don't win the group, who knows, maybe they'll just win it. I see zero chance for S. Africa. They may not be as bad as they've been the past 8 years, but they aren't impressive at all, I am not buying the confed Cup. Who'd they actually beat? Nobody of consequence, and I dont think Spain really cared about a consolation game even though there was honor in their performance. For now I say. 1. France 7 2. Mexico 6 3. Uruguay 2 4. S. Africa 1
No offense, but I am not a Mexico fan in the least, and even I know this is ludricous. Mexico took that tournament about as seriously as the U.S. took this past one, as in, not at all. Gold Cup's are essentially a joke to Mexico and the US unless they involve a ticket to the Confed (explaining why Mexico took the '03 Gold Cup significantly more seriously than the one held in '05, and why the U.S. took the '03 and '07 Gold Cup's much more seriously than the '05 one as well. They involve a crown, but little else of import, and as such, even Costa Rica and Honduras have started to leave guys at home. Mexico didn't take it seriously because little was at stake, hell, if memory serves Panama made that final and they aren't even a top 5 side in Concacaf. Mexico can and will likely beat S. Africa. I'd be absolutely stunned if they lost. A draw, maybe, with the home crowd roaring in the opener, but I see a Mexican victory. At a neutral site, I'd expect Mexico to win by multiple goals, even in S. Africa they should win. The second Aguirre came in, and the heart and soul of the last decade of Mexican soccer in Blanco came in, Mexico found it's mojo. They're back, and if they'd drawn any other European unseeded team other than Portugal or France, I'd predict winning the group, as it is, they still can win it.
IMO, those three results all came with the U.S being heavily underestimated. I believe the U.S lost their "surprise" factor in the 2009 Confeds Cup with their win over Spain and final against Brazil. That said, the complications I see for the Yanks is that no team will understimate them; which, IMO, plays a big factor since the USMNT is a squad that plays defensive and capitalizes on mistakes. Not only that but being that the Yanks are ranked as favorites over Algeria and Slovenia will can also play against them. Similiar to how a seeded Mexican team only managed to get a draw against Angola. I also do not think that the U.S lacks the talent to beat the likes of Algeria and Slovenia. I just think that the U.S tactics and style of play will ultimately work against them. Sure, playing that way gets them results in the U.S and the ocassional big win but overall at the International stage it has not amounted to much.. Mexico won their group, against three Euros, in 94; 1-0 loss to Norway, 2-1 win over Ireland and 1-1 draw against Italy. The Tricolor then tied both Holland and Belgium in 98 and in 02 defeated Croatia. It is a decent record if anything..
graywolfe81: No offence taken. That said it was hardly an important tournament for South Africa, even less so than for Mexico.
That's reasonable. But why would S. Africa not take it seriously? Other than the Cup of Nations, and friendlies, they had no qualifyers to play going forward much beyond that, why not take it seriously and try to get some games in? I suppose because it was five years removed from the world cup and even a lot of concacaf sides weren't taking it seriously, but at that point, wouldn't the experience be helpful to some point? The US actually made it to the final. Who knows. What I took from it was that Mexico didn't care, and S. Africa seemed to play harder, but Mexico now and Mexico in that tournament are completely different entitities. Maybe S. Africa too, but I don't think the jump in strength is as strong for S. Africa.
The positive I get from playing the host is that Mexico gets the spotlight by playing the very first match of the cup. That's going to be a lot of fun. I see Mexico 1 to 1 vs South Africa I see Mexico 2 to 2 vs France I see Mexico 2 to 1 vs Uruguay. I see Mexico advancing.
Mexico has Uruguay's number. In Latin America, that's called "paternity" (a team is your "daddy" if they almost always defeat you). On the other hand, France has issues defeating typical Latin American competition (not Brazil; France can actually break them down right across the middle). The short passing and change of tempo are confusing to us. So the games against Mexico and Uruguay are likely to be ties. And the South Africa factor is still there. Opening game against the locals is a daunting task. Mexico may have to settle for a draw, while both the others may defeat the South Africans handily.
You have to add to this the fact that Mexico has a stellar Confed. Cup campaign that same summer. The full national team in 2005 was the best that we have had in the past four years. Aguirre´s coaching and talent this time around (if the improvement during the last 6 months is any indication) might deliver a better team just in time for the game against South Africa.
I think that's a bit overly simplistic. France was actually awful in '06 until the last half of their last group play game, and if they'd drawn an even moderately difficult group (England or Brazil's), or a group of death (Holland's or Italy's) they'd have gone home early. The only reason they escaped to finally play quality soccer was that they were gifted an internally imploding African side (Togo, who actually gave them a game, for a half), a weak European side (Switzerland, not bad, but not a good or great side either) and in S. Korea, a side that while solid, was not murderous by any stretch. France was freaking awful for 5 of 6 half's of group play and only woke up in the knockout stage. They followed that with a miserable performance at the group stage of the '08 Euro's, and of course they stunk at the '02 world cup, and while solid at the group stage of the '04 Euro's, then went into the tank in their first knockout game. France has largely seemed off their game for the past decade, the only times they've ever appeared to be clicking at all in any tournament's since Euro '00, were in the group stage of the '04 Euro's, and in the knockouts of the World Cup in '06. Otherwise it's largely been pretty much dreck. I don't know if it's coaching or something else, but they just don't produce at a level you'd expect for the quality of their players.
It's blasphemy, but I found myself cheering when I saw you guys score that beautiful goal to take a lead in silver goal OT against Argentina in the semi's of that Confed Cup. Heartbreaking to see you lose that game in that fashion, much like we'd lose 4 years later against Brazil.
This group is like a rock and hard place. The host country always advances, as does Mexico. Neither team is as good on paper as France, and Uruguay can surprise everyone. I see Mexico and France advancing, but I would not be surprised if any of the four teams in this group made it out. France is vulnerable. If they start slowly, I think they go out with a whimper.
Mexico will top this group because, baring injuries, these 6 months leading up the WC will help their rising star forwards gain valuable experience in the EPL. Mexico already has a veteran European based defense but lacked some quality up front. Sure the time leading up to the WC will allow all to prepare but will favor those teams with rising stars more so than others. With a new coach at the helm, Mexico is playing solid. These are the two factors that many who aren't familiar with Mexico don't take into account. This is the best team Mexico has had in quite some time and there are several players that can score as was seen recently during the gold cup and qualifiers. Unfortunately for France, they were last seen going down in flames which were only extinguished by the hand of Henry. France will be under the microscope of the refs and they wont catch any breaks at all. Any close offside calls will go against them. They have to play decisively to pull off wins and I don't really see them doing that enough to win the group. Uruguay has world class players but they haven't been able to play well as a team in recent world cups and weren't convincing enough in their qualifiers to merrit passage to the round of 16 in SA. South Africa are only in the WC because they are hosting it and I only see them maybe pulling off a tie in a game but that's all. Home field advantage isn't enough to help this team to the round of 16.
I think playing the host in the opener is going to turn what would normally be an automatic win for Mexico into algo muy complicado. The raw emotion of the fans, a Mandela opening message, pressure on the refs could all lead to a draw for S.A. The worst I can see Mexico finishing is 2nd--and that will be determined by whether they get 3 pts. or 1 pt. out of the opener. I think they will beat Uruguay and at least tie France. I was just speaking with a Frenchman today who was underestimating Mexico, despite an excellent history in the group stages. He'll see. France--anything is possible. It's easy to imagine an overly cautious 0-0 in the opener vs. Uruguay, then getting surprised by Mexico's quality in the second game. The pressure of going into the final group match vs. the hosts with only 1 or 2 points would be tremendous on France, who seem mentally fragile, despite all their talent. So--Mexico goes through, but I can't say with certainty that this France does. It's up to them, but I have zero confidence in Domenech. If not, Uruguay will.
Have more confidence in your predictions, you're taking on Domenech qualities. So what I'm getting is Mexico is going through but who else? Go out on a limb, that's why we are here. Okay, okay, you still have about 6 months to make up your mind but the only significant changes till then are just going to be possible injuries. I can't imagine any team sacking their coach right before the WC.