Well, Atlanta and Philadelphia can each sign five internationals, plus one of them is going to get Tobin Heath and the other Casey Noguiera. So right there we're down to Lori being no higher than #7 in the pecking order, and we haven't even looked at free agent signings or who else might be available in the expansion draft.
Lori's been with the team every season since 2003 - she's well-established in the area by this time. I don't think she goes home to Indiana or anything over the summer.
I'm not that knowledgeable on the subject, but here's a list of internationals that a friend of mine came up with when asked a similar question: DPR Korea/Asia: Ri Hyon Suk, Ri Kum Suk, Ri Un Suk, Kim Chol Mi, Ri Un Hyang, Cha Hu Nam & Ri Un Hyang. China/Asia : (apart from Dan Huan) Zhang Rui, Li Jie, Liu Shukun & Xia Caixia. New Zealand/Oceania : Ria Percival, Sarah McLaughlin, Hannah Wall, Renee Leota & what out for this teenager Rosie White (17yrs) Nigeria/Africa : Ogonna Chukwudi, Sarah Micheal & Rita Chikwelu. Ghana/Africa : Florence Okoe, Abjoa Bayor & Safia Rahman. France/Europe : (beside Camile Abily & Sonia Bompastor) Louisa Necib (France women Zinidine Zidane), Sarah Bouhaddi, Laura Georges, Elodie Thomis, Laure Lepailleur, Sandrine Souberyrand, Sandrine Bretigny, Marie Laure Delie & Eugeni Le Sommer. Denmark/Europe : Cathrine Paaske Sorensen, Julie Rydahl Bukh, Merete Pedersen & Katrine Pedersen. Iceland/Europe : Margret Lara Vidarsdottir, Dora Maria Larusdottir, Gudrun Soley Gunnarsdottir, Katrin Jonsdottir, Holmfridur Magnusdottir & Edda Gardarsdottir. Norway/Europe : Marit Fiane Christensen, Gur Knutsen, Marie Knutsen, Lene Mykjaland, Erika Skarbo (GK), Ane Stangeland, Leni Larsen Kaurin, Solveig Gulbrandsen & Melissa Wiik. Ukraine/Europe : Tetyana Chorna, Alla Lishafai, Elena Hodyreva, Nataliya Zinchenko, Vera Djatel, Ludmyla Pekur & Darina Apanaschenko. Russia/Europe : Elvira Todua, Elena Morozova, Olga Petrova & Natalia Mokshanova. Italy/Europe : Patrizia Panico, Valentina Boni, Melania Gabbiadini, Tatiana Zorri & Elisabetta Tona. Finland/Europe : (beside Anne Makinen) Jessica julin, Sanna VAlkonen, Linda Sallstrom & Sanna Talonen. Czechs Republic/Europe : (beside Pavlina Scasna) Katerina Doskva, Lucie Pribanova, Zuzana Pincova, Petra bertholdova, Lucie Haroldova & Veronika Pincova Netherlands (Holland)/Europe : Manon Melis, Karin Stevens & Loes Geurts.
That is a nice list. Without knowing anything about most of them, I would venture a guess that there are several very good players from each of those countries. That does not mean that they are available or will come to Philly and Atlanta.
You are not suggesting that they will be drafting college kids during this expansion draft are you? Because they are not. Nor the internationals, whose draft is a week after this one.
Getting to know Jim Gabarra like I did during the roster building process, I have to imagine he has something up his sleeve. Whether Lori is under contract or not, I have to imagine he is gambling that someone else on the Freedom list will be taken before Lori, who he can then protect along with someone else. Given the fact that Lori has a life and a full time job in the area, word is probably getting around that Lori will be reluctant to leave. And worse case scenario, maybe Jim just trades back for her because she refuses to leave a la Jo Lohman last year. Finally, I was talking with Christen Karniski yesterday and she said developmental players are not eligible for the expansion draft but they will be for the January draft. So Jo, Christen, Kristin DeDycker and KJ will all still be with the team at least until January. Should be interesting to see if Jim's gamble (or at least my assumption that he is gambling) pays off.
Regarding available international players, it will be hard to come up with another 5 or 6 players outside of Germany and (maybe) Sweden that will have the impact of the internationals already in WPS. I don't pretend to know a lot of these teams and a lot of the players but I say this based on what we do know about the players on a list like that. Take Finland, Denmark, Norway, and France for example. Those are good players but, with a few exceptions, they don't stand out on the highest international level or in the best leagues they've played in. Finland: Jessica Julin & Sanna Talonen - good players but not stars in Sweden (and Talonen was a very good player at Florida State but not like one of the best in the NCAA). Didn't mention Kalmari but of course she's another one who has played with moderate success in Sweden. The best player here is probably Anne Makinen who played in WUSA. Denmark: I've often stated that Catherine Paaske-Sorensen is Denmark's best player and I think she might be one of the exceptions. Otherwise, Merete Pedersen, for example, has never quite excelled at World Cup level and she's been around a while. Norway - well, let's see how they do against Sweden in a day or two... But Solveig Gulbrandsen, who was exceptional at the Euros 4 years ago, doesn't seem to play with the same fire that she did. And in general Norway seems to have slipped. Best player - probably Ingvild Stensland. And let's say you got a couple of their older stars: Ragnhild Gulbrandsen and Bente Nordby. We know how Bonnie feels about them and, to be sure, they ARE good. But take Rags with her knees and all, even if you could get her, even if she decided she wanted to - yes, she might make an impact but for how long until her knees give out? One season? Less? So realistically, I only see one player who can make a big impression at this time in WPS from Norway: Stensland. (4 years ago, I would've said Solveig had a chance, too, but not now) France - the reports on Nécib are great but again, the rest of France, while a good team, isn't yet a top team. Bouhhaddi, the GK - sure if you want her to hammer someone's star striker in the head like she did Hanna Ljungberg... Then you have DPR Korea (that's the North one, right?) - forget it unless you're prepared to trade some nuclear weapons to the Dear Leader. And New Zealand - really not a strong team although of course there's a chance of one or two outstanding players. The list didn't include Stanford's Ali Riley but let's look at her to put New Zealand's talent in perspective. Good player at Stanford but it's not like she's Stanford's best player - that's going to be O'Hara or Christen Press or Noyola or.... She played for Pali Blues - good player but not the difference maker for Pali either. So if you're not one of the very best players in NCAA or W-League, what's chances you're going to be one of the true impact players in WPS? And yet she's a starter for NZ. (I think she's a starter) So there's some players out there that can make a big impact but not too many. Out of that list, probably just a handful. Obviously, you can add significantly to that list if you include big bad Sweden and that gutty little team from Germany.
There's a 95% chance Sola will be retiring after the Euros because her knees have been pretty bad as of late. Ragnhild's been retired from everything since the end of 2007 and Nordby has officially retired from both country (Jan. 08) and club (June 09). Yes, Stensland's the obvious choice for Norway, but she's still under contract for another year. Others would be Lene Mykjåland and Erika Skarbø. Erika's recuperating from wrist surgery but should be fine by next season and Lene wanted to sign with the Freedom last year, but they didn't get their shit together quick enough, so she signed a 1-year contract with Røa instead. If the Freedom hold the rights for her, I would think she would come over. Others not mentioned but those I've seen that would be good choices would be Herlovsen, possibly Rønning and Siri Nordby. Others mentioned in an above post: Wiik and Leni Larsen Kaurin are both under contract. LLK just re-signed with Potsdam for 2 years and Wiik has 1.5 season left with Stabaek. The Knutsen sisters may be a possibility, but I imagine it would depend on whether or not they would be willing to leave their (newly wed) husbands behind for an extended period of time. Oh, and Guro's in med school. I wouldn't waste a pick on MF Christensen, but that's just me. Aside from my bias, she's a lawyer and she makes about $60,000/year right now, so I imagine it would be hard for her to walk away from that. Stangeland-Horpestad retired completely at the end of 2008. And how many of you knew who the hell Bompastor was before her name came up in the international draft? There are some very good players on some very bad teams. That's what scouts are for. Simply dismissing a potential player because their national team or club league is not the strongest is absolutely ridiculous.
Absolutely not. The context of this discussion is fire's suggestion that Lori could make significantly more money by going to another team, and my contention is that she's not going to be all that much more valuable to Philly or Atlanta than she is to the Freedom - maybe the #7 player rather than the #11 player - and given the very tight salary cap I doubt the other teams would offer a salary difference that would attract her away from a place where she's lived since 2003.
At last report KJ was on the full roster due to Briana's injury, though obviously that could change. (My expectation, though, is that Scurry will quietly retire in the off-season.)
True, but there was an awful lot of skepticism on here this time last year about being able to get players like Kelly Smith and Marta to join the new league, and look how that turned out.
That was a list of almost 80 players (without anyone from Germany or Sweden) - I'm just saying don't expect more than a handful to make the kind of impact Bompastor made even though (of course) many of us (me included) had no idea who she was. I'm not dismissing any players just because I haven't heard of them - I'm sure there are a couple more Bompastors out there. There just aren't anywhere near 80 of them and there is absolutely nothing ridiculous about the statement I made or the logic I'm using based on the experience we have and the generally diminishing impact once you get past two or three top players for top teams and countries and a handful of players on weaker ones. (Heck, yes, I'd like to see Julie Fleeting back over here). You know, we really aren't such a narrow-minded bunch of provincials here as some people think...
Another flaw in fire's contention about Lindsey that I put forth (and which seems confirmed by jwhiggins3's post) is that whether she can make a larger WPS salary in another location may only be a minor consideration if her total income (or even the majority of it) would be lower if she moved due to giving up another gig in DC that she could not easily pick up in a new location. There have been male players who rejected MLS moves due to being able to get more money in other capacities as coaches (a keeper springs to mind but I can't remember his name) or getting more than an MLS developmental salary from a USL side. What is Lindsey's other job? Are you (or others) free to say?
If what you said about Lindsay's preference or limitation to stay in the Washington DC area is true then this league will have parity problem going forward. Teams in big cities where more players have other jobs will have a huge advantage over teams in smaller markets. Overtime, teams in bigger cities will find ways around the rules to get better players for the cheap.
She has worked as a personal trainer in the DC area for a while now. I don't remember where exactly. I think what the biggest issue will be for Lori is how much does she want to play. If another team drafts her and Gabarra can't get her back, will she want to play more than she wants to stay in DC? Christie Welsh faced that decision last year (she had, and may still have, a job working for National Geographic TV based in DC) and ended up not only going to play for LA but then got traded to St. Louis mid-year. If Welsh had her way she would have wanted to be traded to DC but I guess her desire to play won out. The comment about Lori not going "home" to Indiana in the offseason is pretty accurate. She is established here and lives in the area year-round.
I wouldn't extrapolate too much from Lori's situation since she's a special case (how many players have already spent seven years with their current team?), and even she started her professional career in San Diego before Gabarra traded for her. As for markets, I don't see that as much of an issue right now - St. Louis (for example) isn't that much of a worse job market than Los Angeles. That might change if WPS gets teams from, say, Rochester or Carolina, but that remains to be seen.
True, because EVERY one will want to come to NC! It won't be fair to those folks in LA, DC, or Chicago. It's a great place
Sorry to bump in on the Freedom thread on the expansion draft, but I think we've all been looking at it from a standpoint of who we don't want to lose (including me). If you look at it from Atlanta's or Philadelphia's standpoint, who would you rather have, one of two very young outside defenders (Singer or Gilbeau) both of whom have started, a hard working mid/forward (Moros) who is also very young, or a solid, but 30 years old by next season midfielder (Lindsey). Tough choice, but the expansion teams may opt for the younger player. Of course, the other thing to consider is what will be available. There will be several defenders available in the draft. Likely two from St. Louis out of Logterman, Weber, and McNeill, likely two or more from Chicago out of Oakes, Spilger, Krzysik, and Igwe. Possibly Makoski of LA. Probably Robinson and Graczyk for Gold Pride. So then maybe you would figure with so many defensive players available, the expansion teams will go forwards and midfielders early. One thing is for certain, there won't be many scorers available in the expansion draft. Most likely the expansion teams are going to have to use their international picks for offense, much as most of the league did last year. I wouldn't be surprised if Singer is the first player chosen from the Freedom. She will be one of the best available out of the outside defenders.
Cville has a very good point. We are actually quite lucky because we know who is protected, unlike other teams. If we go off of the assumption that everyone who is NOT protected will be available in the expansion then teams could pick the following players: Lori Lindsey Rebecca Moros Alex Singer Jill Gillbeau Parrissa Eyorokon - getting surgery on her foot - is part of U-23 pool Sarah Senty Emily Jansss Brianna Scurry - will probably retire / be ATL's GK coach?? Kati Jo Spisak - really not sure, but she was promoted to full team I know some of the above players may be free agents, but we don't have that information. I think one of the three listed at the top will be the first Freedom player chosen and then the other two will be protected. It is hard to know what Philly and Atlanta will be looking for or even when the first Freedom player will be picked, but I think the safest bet is to say that Scurry, Spisak and Janss will not be picked. I tried to look at this draft in comparasion to the other two drafts. This is the first draft that the expansion teams really have control of - anybody they draft I would say it is almost guarenteed that they will get the player to sign with them. With the international draft the teams may pick the players, but there is no guarentee that the players will sign with the a team. The 'college draft' is the other one that the expansion teams have control of because players have to place their name in the draft - they want to play so it should be easy to sign them. The big difference between the expansion draft and the college draft is that in the expansion draft the GMs have seen the players play in the league. This is huge because as we saw this year the rookies have been inconsistent - just because they were great in quality doesn't mean they will be able to create a immediate impact for their team. When I thought about who the Freedom left unprotected I immediately thought that the young players would be picked up first, but then I changed my mind. ATL and Philly will have two picks each in the first round of the college draft and then the first two picks of second round - they will be able to pick some of the best young talented players in college. In order to be successful in this league teams need a great goalkeeper, international stars that make an impact and a healthy combination of experience and youth. The expansion draft is where these teams can pick up experienced players that have proven they can play in this league. This is why I would not be surprised if Lori Lindsey gets picked first from the Freedom...if she really is available in the draft. As much as I love Lindsey and I want her to be on the Freedom next year, I would be more upset if we lost Moros or Singer. They are both young players who have shown great potential.
Big Soccer won't let me post my own blog yet!!! September 2009 MW blog Hello Freedom fans, I decided that since we are on the eve of the 2010 WPS expansion draft, it might be a good idea to post my first Freedom Blog. With everything going on in Social media these days, it is tough to break through the clutter, however we believe it is important for fans following our team to have places where they can seek official information. Therefore, I will be posting from time to time on both Big Soccer, as well as on the Freedom Fan corner pages on our website www.washingtonfreedom.com We are creating 3 profiles on as many social networking mediums as possible (Freedom Front Office- official team news or DCFreedom on Twitter and Washington Freedom on Face book, plus our good friend Glory). We are also encouraging all of our players to be active on social media as well, so please search out your favorite Freedom players, we hope you enjoy following them (the one’s active at least- we’re working on it). Following are a few updates from the GM’s desk: Expansion Draft For those of you following the rules of the expansion draft, each WPS team is only allowed to protect 10 players. If/when a player is chosen, teams can then pull back two players, and each existing WPS team can only lose 3 players. Our coaching staff had difficult decisions protecting only 10, and if we had our way we wouldn’t lose any players in this draft. Being able to only protect 10 players means a handful of starting players or players who saw good playing time had to be left unprotected. However, the mere fact we are having an expansion draft is clearly good news for WPS. The more teams in WPS, means the league is able to extend our reach and foot-print in the US which helps attract fans, ticket buyers and new sponsors to the league. I am sure you will all see the news of players selected by WPS expansion teams. I believe Steve Goff got his hands on our protected list not too long ago, search him out on Twitter and you will see it if you haven’t already. Freedom players on loan or playing over-seas We have a lot of Freedom players actively playing either on loan or training with foreign teams. Ali Krieger is with FC Frankfurt, Sonia Bompastor is with PSG in France, Sawa is at NTV Beleza in Japan (Rebecca Moros and Joanna Lohman are training with this team as well thanks to Sawa), Lisa De Vanna is with Perth Glory in Australia, Sarah Senty is training in Sweden, and Sarah Huffman is still looking at various options to play as is Alex Singer. Cat and Abby will be active with the US National team. We wish all our players good luck and much success keeping soccer fit during the WPS off-season. Busy time for the front office While the technical/team side of the Freedom have been busy preparing for the expansion draft, plus scouting college games and working on player loans etc… our front office has been heavy into 2010 business planning and budgeting. We are also strong into our season ticket renewal campaign, as well as new season ticket sales. We have great new pricing and package offerings for 2010. We are also in many, many active new corporate partnership discussions for 2010. We feel very energized and excited by many of the sponsor conversations we are in at the moment. Hopefully in future blog posts I’ll be able to share good sponsorship news with all our fans. We need the support of corporate America in order for this league to survive. Grassroots Marketing/special events Even though we are done playing WPS games this season, we are still out and about in the soccer community this fall. We are trying to attend as many youth soccer tournaments and games as we can, plus attending all United and US Soccer games at RFK. Please visit our website often for event updates and appearances. We also have a handful of players staying here in the DC area; players like Bri, KJ, Erin McLeod, and Emily Janss have offered to go on appearances for the Freedom in the off-season. Cat Whitehill is attending the Greater Washington Sports Alliance Sneaker ball tomorrow night for example. Last but not least, we are planning a handful of off-season special events; we will keep everyone posted via official team announcements (Corporate/community and season ticket events). This closes the brief update on the eve of the WPS expansion draft. I’ll check back soon with relevant information and updates as we feel is necessary. As always, we appreciate all of our fans support and your help spreading the word about the Freedom. We got off to a great start in 2009, but there are a lot more exciting things in store for next season. Thank you again for the support! Mark Washo www.twitter.com/mwasho_dcgm
Excellent Post, Mwasho Freedom GM! This is exactly the kind of communications fans want. I know Peter in Chicago and Andy in Boston are also doing a great job. How about the others? LA SOL?, FCGP? Athletica? Blue Skys?, and Philly/Atlanta? BigSoccer is such a better place to discuss than Twitter or Facebook... Good luck getting a blog going too. Keep it up.
I noticed with interest that Mark Washo didn't mention that Lori Lindsey would also be busy with the National Team. Was that because she is not a protected player and the Freedom are expecting she will not be back with them and have already moved on? BTW - how was it that the Freedom's protected list was the only one to make it public? Bad form. I do look forward to tomorrow's draft; it will be interesting to see who goes where.
According to Steven Goff we lost Lori Lindsey and Sarah Senty. I figured if Lori was available she was would be going. One must be going to Atlanta and one to Philly. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/2009/09/wps_expansion_draft.html#comments