2009 Revs Roster Thread II

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

IIRC, they were pretty healthy that year but started to experience injuries late and into the playoffs. It probably impacted their ability to win the shield but, as we all know, they went far in the post season tournament.

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

actually, so far, it would be an upgrade if we were a mid table team. At best, so far, we are a near bottom of the table team.


i hold out that this league is all about passing tests at the right time.

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

I did pick 10-10-10 for my prediction this year.

At this point I think I would take that, but who knows.

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

You have a valid point, but my view on it differs slightly. I think when you lose talent, you have to replace it with talent, but not necessarily one for one. Other than keeper, there's no absolute mandate in my mind that if we lose, say a left mid, we must replace him with a left mid who's equal or better (sometimes it's better to rearrange the pieces you have and pick up a different position, a case in point would be Mansally this year).

There are two ways to look at the overall talent on a team. The starting 11 is one -- and there's no question that our starting 11 is not the best we've had (it certainly doesn't come close to 2005 and doesn't rival any of the squads' in the Nicol area when you factor in the injuries). The second area to look at is 12 on, and probably because of the injuries, this team might have the strongest bench we've ever had. Outside of Assengue, who appears to be a project for the future, and whoever you want to choose as the weekly whipping boy (Wells, Phelan, Nyassi, ...) there aren't many players who haven't seen a good number of minutes and who you absolutely don't want to see enter the game.

In terms of the overall talent being down, I think this is more an issue of the first few years of the Nicol regime, rather than the past two. The top 5-6 players we've added from outside the draft in the past 2 1/2 years (Mansally, Nyassi, Osei, Jankauskas, Badilla). Some of the past problems in bringing in players has led to a real hole in the experienced, but not close to aging veteran, players on the team. We are made up almost entirely of young and promising, or experienced and aging or close to aging -not much in the 26 - 29 age range which is frequently the most productive of many player's careers. Unless we remedy this or some of our young prospects break out, we're looking at a scary sight when the TNT/Shalrie/Ralston/Heaps era ends.

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

What's interesting about that was when the Revs really were championship contenders, the addition of Mansally, Osei and Jankauskas probably would have gotten them a few trophies. None of them would have started but could've been a boost off the bench and given the starters some rest so they weren't dragging by the time the playoffs came around.

Adding them now probably doesn't have the same impact. Which is not to say they were bad additions...but additions like them may have been more valuable earlier, even if they'd get less playing time.

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

I like what you are saying overall.

I think they don't get players in the 26-29 age range is because players in their prime are usually more expansive than unproven, young players and older, past-prime players.

Has anyone considered the idea that expansion of the league has contributed to this topic? In 2002, when Steve Nicol took over the Revolution, there were 10 MLS teams. In 2005 there were 12 teams. 2007 had 13 teams. 2008 had 14 teams. In 2009 there are now 15 MLS teams, 5 more than when the Nicol era started, 50% increase for those who like stats. This deserves a general MLS thread all to itself but there really isn't enough talent to maintain the level of American players. I'm not arguing that teams can't improve, I think that replacing upper echelon players (especially Americans) are being spread more thinly throughout the league now and there for it is much harder to concentrate as much talent in one team as it was before. [I am preparing to get ripped apart for this but it can't be ignored]

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

I have to respectfully disagree here, you WAY over rating the quality of the 05 team. People seam to have forgotten we had two players who where lock starters that year who had at best USL-1 skill level, Marshall and Franichino. neither of those two would even make roster on today's team much less start. Both Mansally and Osei would have not only started but been among the best players on the team. I'll leave out Jank because i have not seen him play much, but form what little I've seen i think he'd be in the same boat as the other two.

Mansally easily would have solved our left mid issues and added much need speed to an otherwise very slow footed team. Having an experienced international like Osei on the team would have likely kept unproven rookie CB on the branch at least at the start of the season.

I agree though having any one of these players MAY have made a difference in winning some more hardware, but such is life.

 

well the 05 team started a 3-5-2 in the final so if I had to pick a starting 11 from both my teams and a 18 man game roster it would be
............................................Reis
........Alston.......................Parkhurst...............Heaps
.............................Joseph..............Larentowicz
Dempsey............................Ralston...................Mansally
..........................EJ..........................Twellman
Bench
Knighton
Barnes
Noonan
Hernandez
Dorman
Nyassi
Osie

From just seeing his brief stint, EJ would have started over Noonan. Looks like 5 05ers, 7 09ers and 5 holdovers
That starting line up would definately beat any team in the league currently and in 05

 

Lets not forget we have never really seen the Badilla who if and when he gets to play and settle in with this team for awhile has the background to be MLS All Star. I'm also not sure that Castro isn't serious upgrade from 05. Fact is it often take a full year for SI's new to MLS to adjust to our style of play. He's still a bit of an unknown.

 

miked9 is right. Any acquisition of a half-decent player at some point in 2005 or 2006 would have very likely been enough to make the difference.

I'm getting my years mixed up, but which year was it that only 14 players on the team had more than 200 minutes the whole year? That was when a number of decent players became available via trade to other teams, and had we picked up a guy at the level of say, Todd Dunivant or Joseph Ngwenya, we could have had a legit option to use as a tactical sub, not to mention rest some of the guys who got burned out. That was something we never could do.

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

I think the gap in mid-late twenties players is less of a reflection of who we've brought in than of our inability to keep the players we drafted who turned into solid players (dempsey and dorman would be in this age range) combined with the fact that we brought in no good young talent from outside the draft until a couple of years ago.

I totally agree with your point about the effect of the diluted talent pool on the Revs. Particularly that it impacted what appeared to be Nicol's preferred method of building a team, via the draft and player development. To their credit, I think they figured out that that wasn't working and have changed their strategy (although it probably took too long).

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

Re: 05 vs 09

Osei would not start over Parkhurst in a 3 man backline. Osei has made more boneheaded plays in 2 months as Parkhurst did for his entire Revs tenure.

In my book Mansally would not come close to starting over Andy Dorman (have to say "in my book" as we saw Wells start over Dorman inexplicably for a whole half season). It drives me nuts to watch Rev fans undervalue that guy. Mansally is fine, but honestly, how much better is he than Khano Smith? 10%?

Jankauskas would DEFINITELY NOT start over 2005 Pat Noonan. I like Jank and everything, but get real. Noonan was a NT level player back then, one of the best 2nd striker options in the league.

I wasn't considering Alston, as he was a draft pick. Though now that you mention it, would you start him over Avery John, who was basically in World Cup-level form *and* was comfortable in a 3-5-2? That's a tough call, but I think I'd go with the vet.

If I'm picking 11 right now, and I can choose between players from 2005 and players from 2009, the only "2009" guy I definitely take is Larentowicz. Knighton, Jankauskas, Alston, Osei and Mansally make the 18. Which sort of makes my point.

 

It was 2007, but 2005 and 2006 were pretty poor in that regard, as well. 14 guys got 97% of the Revs MP in 2007, 93% in 2006, and 94% in 2005. That's way beyond league averages. I have a pretty big spreadsheet sitting around somewhere from when I figured it all out.

Regardless, you're definitely right. Any of those kind of guys that a team like, oh, I don't know, HOUSTON picked up (Ngwenya, Mulrooney, Jacqua, etc) would have gone a long way to pushing us over the top.

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

Interesting perspective when you take a look at Janny's credentials.

Five times player of the year for his country. Many more Caps than Noonan and played and was a consistant goal scorer in in top European Leagues.

He's a tall target forwards that clearly hold the ball. He's just rounding into shape and learning his teammates and the Rev/MLS style of play but showed clearly last Wednesday he will be a true force in this league.

I'd take Janny over Noonan any day.

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

One thing people keep harping on is the fact that "so and so player wouldn't fit into 2005's 3-5-2." Thing is, the formation should be dictated by the personell you have, not the other way around. Nicol has said that multiple times.

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

As would I.

 

Re: Other Team's News III [R]

That's a fine point to make, but when you look at the personnel you still wind up playing a 3-5-2. You want to find a way to get Ralston, Dempsey, Joseph, Larentowicz and Dorman on the field at once much more than you need to get 4 defenders on the field at once. There's a decent argument to be made that Parkhurst is much better off in a 3 man backline, as well.

This is all academic, of course. The point is that even in the most sanguine of views you'd only take a handful of 2009's players over 2005 players, which says to me that the talent level is down. Talent isn't everything, of course, but if you go to things like 'results' 2009 doesn't really measure up, either.

Jankauskas has scored 1 goal and he hasn't even started a game yet. Noonan had 37 goals and 29 assists for us, and he was the perfect partner for Twellman. You guys are absolutely hilarious.

 

I think we rode a veteran-heavy, contending lineup as long as we could - and that's hard to argue with, IMO.

This year, we have a very heavy youth movement. Almost all of the young players have decent to high potential, so in the next season or two we'll be pretty well stocked with good players in their prime.

 

Regarding EJ now vs. Noonan in '05, I think those of you who're rushing to judgement on either side of the debate are a bit premature. We've not seen enough of what EJ has left to fully evaluate, so we're all just speculating. Should EJ get healthy and continue to produce the way he has been, it's probably a tough call, but he could develop some chemistry with his teammates and make a jump in value (I'm counting on this -- he's on my MFLS bench!) or MLS defenders could figure him out and he might plateau, or, especially given the way this season's gone, his injury could last until next spring...

 

just going on a gut feeling on this one.....I think if EJ was here from the get go this season, he would would probably pass the numbers that Noonan put up. Noonan had a great year no doubt but just watching EJ dribble around out there and the size and problems he causes the defenders, I put chose EJ over Noonan for tactical reasons

 

I think you're absolutely right.

Just watching him from his 1st to 2nd appearances, then his 1st start, you can see he's figuring out how MLS works and using his skills more and more effectively.

He figured out pretty quickly that he's going to get hit every time when receiving the ball with back to goal - and he knows how to absorb the hit and still control the ball. And he's figured out that on tougher balls, he can play the ball back into the gaps between the forward line and midfield, and then turn and play distributor.

In fact, it's that latter play that really has me impressed. He has good close control, excellent vision and is good at putting balls through for the wings to run for.

I'd like to see him better at finishing - there were a couple of chances that I thought he should have scored on, but, even for a forward, I consider that a secondary part of his role.

The only question in my mind is durability. He's already picked up an early injury - let's hope that's just an aberration (and he stops drinking the water in Foxboro that seems to degrade hamstring muscles).

 

His hamstring injury isn't the usual muscle tear but the result of that blow to the back of the leg by the Fire defender--ie, a muscle bruise. He's lucky he didn't get his knee ligaments damaged.